1053 replies to this topic

[klop422]

[claim]

[Anthus]

Re: level 1. Looks like all the items are down. I'd throw in one more rupee drop somewhere. If it's not done by 8:30, I might claim and make the boss door room. I'm at work all day, and can only watch our baby grow. Kinda like Ness' dad.

As far as rupee drops in general go, how do we feel about the default drop sets? We have lots of places to use rupees. Afaik, the default sets don't have bomb and arrow ammo (but do have regular bombs) either.

[Avaro]

I've seen arrow and bomb ammo i think in the default drop set. Seems fine.

 

Btw I also changed the 1 arrow ammo item to 3 arrows, because getting one arrow at a time would be pretty useless.

[klop422]

I've added an extra 20 rupees behind that bombable wall. I'd suggest the screen above this one have a bomb drop so you have enough to test walls, as well as the boss door (maybe accessible through that corridor with the key that I have in mine).

 

Basically, unless we want to expand the dungeon, we're probably more or less done.

 

http://www.mediafire...p422-m2-s54.qst

[Formidable]

​[CLAIM]

[Lüt]

Also, the issue with making the lava not recoloured water is that now the lava zoras won't appear... I wish there were a possibility for lava tiles (i.e. damage unless you have 'boots', in which case they're water). Would be a nice script (not just for this quest) if someone could do it.

It doesn't need to be that complicated. The lava in that screen is inaccessible, so you can simply make a duplicate combo and change its type to water.

I just wanted to suggest that we make the boss of level 1 a gohma of some kind, since the item is the arrows. I seem to remember level 1/level 2 gohma being pretty easy, but if not, we could nerf it.

Just what I was thinking.

Though as far as HP goes, L1 Gohma already dies in one hit from the wooden arrow, so it's basically impossible to nerf unless you want it to die as soon as it sees you. I'd actually suggest doubling its HP to take two arrows.

Also, could someone add a bomb drop as a room item somewhere in the dungeon? I spent too long during this test run farming for bombs and eventually gave up and used cheats. Preferably at least two bomb drops, so you can test a few places and not feel like you're wasting a precious resource.

There should probably be a bomb shop near the start.

I can put it in the shop I was planning for 4E, but it comes a few screens after L1, so another shop even earlier could be preferable, perhaps with the caveat that the further shop is a bit cheaper.

Red just came to my mind - maybe the same Palette but mostly cset 4?
Either that or one of the broghter green palettes.

I was thinking of using green for the level with the entrance top-right at 0F. That outdoor area seems an ideal setup for a green/garden/nature dungeon.

Red... it's certainly a contrast. Would need a new palette, and I'm not sure MR is the best place. Unless you're good at making red look miserable

EDIT: Not too proud of this one, but I made it:

Please, nobody make that staircase a dungeon (unless we're doing multiple entrances to Misery Ruins, which could possibly be a good idea, but I'm really not sure). Also, the waterfall is hiding a cave.
I used the wrong combos to make the watery effect around the stone floor, but I noticed it and it's fixed in the actual file.

Had some thoughts here. To start, it's kind of what I had in mind, with the way it's all connected, as well as blocked off on the right side.

 

The catch though, is the height. We've basically been working this area with 2 main floor heights, and a sparse 3rd top-level highlight. The walkable area below ends on the lowest level at the base of the waterfall, but the waterfall then brings it up to the upper level, as on the other side of the structure in 5C. That means that your brighter water border around the stairscase in the original screenshot was actually accurate, and it was the diagonal brick floor that would have been better suited using the brighter upper-level version of that flat (the staircase is already an upper-level combo). Of course, that would mean the water is then level with the upper floor tiles of the dungeon structure on the right side, and since walking down on those from 5F to 6F is a pointless dead end, they'd be best off blocked, and probably with the top-level highlight on the far right wrapping around. I mean, I get that the blocks at the bottom left of 5E kind of throw this off a bit, but we can punish Anthus later 

 

And it regard to the staircase, the catch again is that Misery Ruins is all part of the overworld map, meaning that because screen 80 is already a cave, you can't have item chambers in this area. And, could be me, but I think having a staircase in a dungeon structure go down into a cave looks odd. At the same time, I agree with not making it a dungeon. Now it's possible the actual dungeon in this area could be multi-entrance, but I don't know if the Skull Woods approach is ideal. The way the area progresses at the moment leads the player to 7F, which makes it look to me like that's meant to be the main entrance (though who knows what the left side will eventually turn out). That said, I'll admit I planned for the screen above that entrance to be a staircase to a previously blocked portion of a room - that is, you get the flippers, complete the level, then you can swim up to 6F, push the block, and take the stairs down to another room with an item you couldn't reach while doing the main dungeon. So in a way, that's a plan for a multi-entrance dungeon, and it also implies a 1:1 dungeon:overworld screen position layout, which would then have your staircase leading into the 3rd room up from the 7F entrance.

 

Well, stuff to think about...

I've realised that some of the edges of the map could allow the player to move off the screens, whereas some don't. I think I mentioned it before (suggesting looping), but the current state of the map doesn't really allow that (since we'd be looping from the entrance to level 2 to the Misery ruins entrance, for example. The way I see it, we have three options vis a vis edge screens - we change the screens to allow it to loop (i.e. walkability is consistent; screens unwalkable at the top just don't loop); we change the screens so you can't loop (basically changing the watery screens at the top and bottom); or we add another map into the overworld.

I think we're beyond the point of looping, and while I hate running into invisible barriers, it looks like that's the only option at this point. I do agree with avoiding them as much as possible, but some scenes would look incredibly forced if they were to be fully closed off at this point. Maybe some could be revised, but it's probably best to just move ahead knowing we won't loop, and design accordingly.

[klop422]

Re looping, I'll fix my one edge screen in MR and have that be done.
If we did decide to do it, though, not all screens have to loop, the same way not every screen has to access every adjacent screen. With that in mind, there's technically only one pair which doesn't work, but the other almost offending screens may cause issues.

I'll probably look back at my previous screen (I made minor edits which make it a little nicer), but I think it'll have to do. Again, anyone can feel free to change it minorly, as long as it still works.

[Formidable]

The Screen is Done: https://www.dropbox....M2-S44.qst?dl=0

 

Will update in a second with pictures.

 

EDIT:

 

And here it is. Kill all Enemies >> Bomb Drop as well as shooting the eyeball removing the blocks. I wanted to make it permanent but as it is the blocks reappear each time you enter the screen. If somebody knows how to amend this that would be great. The top left portion of this screen was a bit of a difficult problem to tackle but I think I made it work.

 

Double Edit: Oh and the Eyeball tiles I made could use a bit of work. I kinda felt like the screen only works with a two-tile wide arrow trigger so I tried to make an acceptable design, but I am open to any criticism. Also this screen has some messy flagwork in an attempt to properly set up the arrow trigger so beware that.

Edited by FormidableMathematics, 05 May 2018 - 01:41 PM.

[Deedee]

[Claim] > : (

Also, for the bosses, there was a discussion in the discord about how we should actually make the bosses 2.10 custom boss style, with screen warping and stuff. This way, each person would take a turn designing one screen of the bosses attacks/weak points, resulting in a nice collab boss that anyone can add to, fitting this project.

Also also, proposed change to Klop's bridge screen:

Spoiler

Y/N? (you'd be able to jump off the bottom on that ledge)

Edited by Dimentio, 05 May 2018 - 02:51 PM.

[Avaro]

2.10 bosses seems like a bad idea. it fits this project, sure, but i can see it turning out too janky and it actually seems boring and limited to make 1 screen of a 2.10 boss. Z1 bosses are boring too, but at least then it won't take forever to make.

Edited by Avataro, 05 May 2018 - 02:07 PM.

[Deedee]

2.10 style bosses are inherently more unique and fun than Z1 bosses, as long as they're well made. Considering how much can be done on 1 screen with just simple database scripts, moving ffcs, etc; it seems the better choice and more fitting (plus then we have less arguments over what the boss should be).

Also, I have to ask, Math, what is the point of the secret on your screen? Considering it just unlocks a path to a screen you could have gotten to by going a screen left, down and right.

[Formidable]

Also, I have to ask, Math, what is the point of the secret on your screen? Considering it just unlocks a path to a screen you could have gotten to by going a screen left, down and right.

 

I had intended for it to be a sort of checkpoint, so as to open up the dungeon and make for easier navigation. But since the screen it opens to is so easy to get to anyways, it does kinda feel pointless. I don't know, maybe It can be reworked or maybe it should just be removed. What do you think?

Edited by FormidableMathematics, 05 May 2018 - 03:12 PM.

[Deedee]

Perhaps it could open a secret in front of that locked door a few screens down and right from it; since it's currently possible to waste a key there before getting the bow and thus get stuck.

[Formidable]

Yoinks. Remote screen secrets are a bit outside of my skill level. Nonetheless, it seems like a fine idea.

 

I was also thinking of moving the blocks so that they block the other entrance:

 

Spoiler

Like so.

 

Either way works for me. A remote screen secret seems like the better choice, I just don't really know how to do one.

 

Edit: Messed up the spoiler.

Edited by FormidableMathematics, 05 May 2018 - 03:24 PM.

[Lüt]

I had intended for it to be a sort of checkpoint, so as to open up the dungeon and make for easier navigation. But since the screen it opens to is so easy to get to anyways, it does kinda feel pointless. I don't know, maybe It can be reworked or maybe it should just be removed. What do you think?

Well, going around 2 screens doesn't seem like much of a checkpoint.

 

More to the point, what's with the shots in your posts above?

 

This is the room in the quest file:

Spoiler

The ladder up to the top level with the single block up there in your screenshots makes sense - that setup directly opens a line of progress upward when you shoot the switch. But in the actual quest file that I screenshotted above, there's no way to get up there? No ladder and no block to lower?

 

OK, I partially lied - I added the two blocks on the right side of the screen as an example of an additional something essential that could be triggered by the switch. But it's also a very long trip back to the switch if you miss it the first time, so I wouldn't recommend it.

 

Also, it's possible to set up the arrow trigger more accurately and keep the blocks down permanently even in NES dungeon screen. If Herr Script Manager (Dimentio) wants to add this to the file, I can configure it for you, including remote secrets if desired.

 

By the way, I really like this screen, and klop's below it might be one of my favorites so far.