377 replies to this topic

[Maleboocado]

It's your right to not like it, but if a game this old still divides players to this day... it must have something to it? Mega Man 2 is 26 years old and still has a devoted fan base. How would a genuinely "shit" game still be played and loved after so many years?

I do not buy this argument. At all.

There's absolutely nothing that makes Mega Man 2 inherently superior to other games. Nothing. It's all about the mainstream design ideas and culture, what became popular in the NES years and thus expected in later games. So "people" (what people?) liked MM2, let's make more clone sequels/products. How dare can you say MM2 is a mediocre/irregular game? "People" love it!

It's the majority speaking for the minority.

The very fact that is a popular old game means that Mega Man 2's "perceived" good quality should be challenged. We gain absolutely nothing by saying MM2 is a 8-10/10 game, everybody agrees, woohoo! What would happen if someone says MM2 is a 3/10 game. Now that's an good question, which can give us some interesting arguments. You don't even need to love or hate the game (I certainly don't hate MM2, after all, I found it enjoyable).

I have never accepted Ocarina of Time as the best game ever. It's not even the best Zelda game for me. Majora's Mask is a better Zelda.
I have never liked Super Mario World and Super Mario 64, and I still don't like them. I prefer the "old", " dusty" Super Mario Bros., SMB3, or the first Super Mario Land. I'm far more excited towards Mario Maker than the next "big" Mario game.
I don't accept the quantity > quality premise.
And so on.

And when I said thing like that (that I don't found these games as good as many other people say) I always receive the same negative replies. "People loved Super Mario 64, you're just a hipster". Translation: " shut the fuck up, you're not entitled to speak, your tastes are questionable".

Do you love Mega Man 2? Fine, that's cool. Does a loyal fanbase exist? Fine, that's cool. But never impose your criteria over anybody else with arguments like "people love MM2!". That's not cool.

Edited by Maleboocado, 16 October 2014 - 06:37 AM.

[Aevin]

Do you love Mega Man 2? Fine, that's cool. Does a loyal fanbase exist? Fine, that's cool. But never impose your criteria over anybody else with arguments like "people love MM2!". That's not cool.

I'm not sure I understand why this gets under your skin so much. Jamian's post is a reaction to a wave of people here saying MM2 sucks, that it has absolutely no value at all, which puts down those who enjoy it. The fact that there are large numbers of people who enjoy it means that there's something in it that appealed to all those people. Either there's at least some value in the game, or all those people are idiots who enjoy horrible, empty forms of entertainment because they have no soul or something. The argument is never, "MM2 isn't my cup of tea, but people appreciate different things in games," it's "MM2 is so horribly designed I just don't understand why anybody likes it at all!" You may have avoided this, but several others haven't, and there's some of it coming from both sides.

 

I don't want to belabor this point too much, but this kind of rhetoric really bugs me. "This is the best game in the series, hands down."  "This game is a horrible mess that can't even be taken seriously as a game." "Why can't you see the truth, like I can?" I guess it's human nature to want to rate things and put things down with a voice as if you're the ultimate authority on the matter. Oh well. I can't change the whole internet.

 

For my part, I love Mega Man 2. Why? Because I had a lot of fun playing it, and no matter how many people write essays about how bad it is, they'll never convince me that I didn't.

[Yloh]

Mega Man 2 was my very first Mega Man game ever. That game got me hooked on the series. I believe one reason why Mega Man 2 gets the hype it does is because Mega Man 2 was many people's first Mega Man game. Lets rewind to the late 1980s and early 1990s: there was not a whole lot of variety of games like we have today, we did not have easy access to all sorts of cool games back then, and most of us where kids back then. Kids had to stick with the game they had regardless if it was good or not. When kids where introduced to a game like Mega Man 2, it is going to stick with them because of the factors stated above. With that said, it is easy to tell why Mega Man 2 has such a huge following.

 

Kids who where born in the 1990s to 2000s have a different gaming experience than those of use born in the 1980s. Mega Man had many different games, there where a lot more gaming systems, and emulators where gaining popularity. No longer did a child have to stick with a game he/she didn't enjoy because that child has an easier access to a wider variety of games. The gaming market had more competition. I can't speak for people from this era, but that is my theory behind it.

 

For a child born in the 1080s, Mega Man 2 really stood out. For a child born in the 1990s - 2000s, Mega Man 2 is just hanging out there in the background. 

[Air Luigi]

I believe one reason why Mega Man 2 gets the hype it does is because Mega Man 2 was many people's first Mega Man game.

 

I hope this is a bad joke... 

 

In that case, Megaman 1 should be the most loved. Megaman was popular since the first entry. In my case, I never played Megaman 2 in their time for example, and I tried games like 4-5-6 first... and I never started to appreciate the Megaman series until I played MM1- MM2 and X1, because these are the only games with a clear cohesion, attention to detail and more inspired art direction. I explained why MM2 is unique in previous pages, if you are curious about that.

[Maleboocado]

Aevin, of course it touches me in a personal way, but I'm gonna try to explain why as short as possible (and still being on-topic)

Some days ago popular feminist writer and blogger Anita Sarkertrian was forced to cancel a public event in a high school because of a false bomb alert. The reason? She's hated by anti-feminist male people, who are angry because a person who was born with a vagina is talking and denouncing sexist tropes and elements in popular mainstream games. She's just publicly explaining her views and tastes, like you and me.

(This reminds me I still haven't watched her videos, goddamnit)

When things like this are happening I cannot be neutral towards any person who tries to impose their opinions towards anybody else. I know nobody in PureZC has threatened another user because of a diference regarding a game or games, but you get the point.

While I don't like using arguments like "why can people like this" and similar others, I still think that calling someone for the tone used when that person is in the minority is not the same as calling someone for her/his/its tone when they're in the majority.

Because when someone who hates MM2 (or another popular game) is a little harsh towards people who loves the game, well, those people can get social support (they're part of the game's fanbase). But the opposite is a lot different. I mean, there's of course people outside who dislikes the Megaman games, it just happens that the fans are more vocal and prominent. So dissident voices are muted.

And simply put I'm tired of people (outside this board) questioning my criteria and saying "you just don't like videogames" or "you should get a life" just because I have a different taste in videogames. It has even happened once here when someone said that I was a retro gamer or something like that because I "cannot enjoy/hate modern games".

Edited by Maleboocado, 16 October 2014 - 04:14 PM.

[RetroChallengeGamer]

I believe one reason why Mega Man 2 gets the hype it does is because Mega Man 2 was many people's first Mega Man game.

Mine was actually Mega Man 3. That game colored my view for a long time until I started branching out. But I still love it dearly, bugs, unpolish and all.

[Aevin]

While I don't like using arguments like "why can people like this" and similar others, I still think that calling someone for the tone used when that person is in the minority is not the same as calling someone for her/his/its tone when they're in the majority.

Because when someone who hates MM2 (or another popular game) is a little harsh towards people who loves the game, well, those people can get social support (they're part of the game's fanbase). But the opposite is a lot different. I mean, there's of course people outside who dislikes the Megaman games, it just happens that the fans are more vocal and prominent. So dissident voices are muted.

This is a really interesting point ...  I'm afraid I'm getting too far off the topic of Mega Man, here, but I hope no one minds too much. I'm thinking hard about this concept of the majority vs. the minority. It's a trend I see in many things, not just video game discussions, where the majority is so used to enjoying a position of favoritism that when other people try to even things up, they feel like they're being persecuted. However, at least within this thread, it doesn't seem that there's a clear majority of people who like MM2 putting down people who hate it. It seems pretty even. And I'd much rather see people on both sides being respectful of opposing views than everyone insisting they're correct and drawing battle lines, no matter who is in the majority.  I don't exactly disagree with your point, but I'm not sure how much it applies here, especially when the thread is dedicated to these games (that is, it's a place for Mega Man fans to gather).

 

On a side note, I'm a fan of Anita Sarkeesian's videos. I agree that the way women (and especially feminists) are treated in the game industry and gaming journalism is appalling. I do recommend watching her stuff, although sometimes it can get quite uncomfortable.

[Yloh]

I hope this is a bad joke... 

 

In that case, Megaman 1 should be the most loved. Megaman was popular since the first entry.

 

Mega Man 1 didn't sell nearly as many copies as Mega Man 2. It was Mega Man 2 that truly brought the series into the spot light, not Mega Man 1. 

 

I'm having trouble finding how many copies Mega Man 1 sold, but multiple sources said Mega Man 1 did not sell well in America. Mega Man 2, however, has sold over 1,500,000 copies worldwide. Every Mega Man game, on the NES, after that has not sold as much as Mega Man 2 has. One source said Mega Man 1 only sold 100,000 units, but I don't trust that source. With those facts, it easy for me to guess that Mega Man 2 was many people's, who where born in the 1980s, first Mega Man game. 

 

I'll admit about being wrong about Mega Man 2 being many people's first Mega Man game, but I hope you can see where my logic is coming from. 

[Maleboocado]

Oh fuck it's "Sarkeesian". I mispelled it lol.

And yeah, in this thread the lovers and haters are even. But still, from what I have seen " the Internet" loves Mega Man 2. It's a game that usually appears in general lists of top 10 games ever. I admit I'm not a strong user of forums and other types of social communities, but the first time I found someone who didn't like Mega Man 3 (and specially its OST was in another forum just a few months ago. And this is the first active thread I have seen where I can openly disagree regarding MM2 and 3. Still, Jamian's answer triggered me, even if he was just replying towards a supposed wave of MM haters.

[Jamian]

This is true, Mega Man 1 sold ok in Japan, but did poorly in North America. Inafune believes it had to do with the regional cover art, which was frankly awful and gives a poor representation of what the game is actually like:

 

 

The game was not a hit, but did sufficiently well in Japan that a sequel was green lit. Mega Man 2 was the game that really boosted the series' popularity worldwide.

Still, Jamian's answer triggered me, even if he was just replying towards a supposed wave of MM haters.

 

Yeah... If you think I attempted to "impose my criteria" or "impose my opinions", you're just reading something in my reply that wasn't there.

[Legen Dary]

I love that cover. So bad it's good.

[Nicholas Steel]

This is true, Mega Man 1 sold ok in Japan, but did poorly in North America. Inafune believes it had to do with the regional cover art, which was frankly awful and gives a poor representation of what the game is actually like:
 

 
The game was not a hit, but did sufficiently well in Japan that a sequel was green lit. Mega Man 2 was the game that really boosted the series' popularity worldwide.


 
Yeah... If you think I attempted to "impose my criteria" or "impose my opinions", you're just reading something in my reply that wasn't there.

You could at least link to the other variations of the box art for different regions: [url=http://videodyssey.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/mega-man-box-art-gallery.html]http://videodyssey.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/mega-man-box-art-gallery.html It seems America was the only place with awful box art? North America's is pretty cool.

The PAL Megaman 3 artwork and Megaman 10's artwork is still imho the best ones.

Edited by franpa, 17 October 2014 - 02:08 AM.

[Yloh]

Here is a list of my favorite robot masters from each Mega Man game.

 

1. Electric Man

2. Quick Man

3. Gemini Man

4. Pharaoh Man

5. Napalm Man

6. Centaur Man

7. Freeze Man

8. Swords Man
9. Tornado Man

10. Nitro Man

[RetroChallengeGamer]

You forgot Megaman & Bass.

[The Satellite]

Finally got around to replaying Megaman 8 because I hate myself, remembering that I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally didn't care much for the game my first time around. However, upon review, it's actually not half-bad in most respects. It had some unique and clever design in areas, and while I'm not too certain the sudden genre shift in the Rush Jet segments is exactly fitting, it was still pretty enjoyable. There was even a Rush Bike, which, while I found little use for it, was pretty awesome. Heck, the graphics were nice and created some nice atmosphere in most of the stages.

 

Some minor complaints about it include the standard Megaman fare, areas that seem a bit too rough to navigate at times, some enemy placement that made me go "why?", an enemy or two that had an annoying pattern, some bosses with incredibly-difficult-to-dodge attacks. Another one that's not so typical (except of Megaman 5) is that the stages are a bit on the lengthy side. Actually lengthier than 5's. They just kinda drag on, and while there are some neat ideas, they aren't enough to sweeten the long play. I like Megaman games because the levels aren't too long but are still packed with fun level design and enemy battles. I don't like them when they drag on. But again, it's a minor complaint, just like how Megaman's in-game sprites look a little odd to me.

 

As for major complaints... here's a list:

 

1. No E-tanks? No tanks at all? Why remove those? They're a staple, and would have smoothed the ride out dramatically through the tougher segments. There's supposedly a Rush Charger ability that exists, something I learned after beating it, but I'm not sure if I found it, and if I did, I didn't really look at my abilities except for one time.

2. The midbosses in the stages have way too damn much health. Duo had the same. The regular bosses for the most part seemed fair on the health, but these two... sheesh, nerf a little, please? I know some midbosses in the past seem to have a lot of health, but these ones felt like they had much more.

3. Megaman 3 introduced a wonderful concept that the next three games repeated: The Wily bosses have their own stage apart from the robot master rematches. Well, 5 had the Wily Press in the same stage as the rematches, but it was pretty laughably easy, and the machine and capsule were in the next stage. Basically, this is a very nice convention 7 decided wasn't a good idea, and 8 followed in 7's footsteps here: The Wily bosses share a stage with the rematches once again. The machine and capsule are tough in both games, too, meaning game overs are likely, and no one wants to have to fight the robot masters again just for another chance at the final bosses. Yes, this is one of my problems with 1 and 2 as well.

4. The boarding segments are just terrible. They last far too long and the controls are occasionally unresponsive, leaving you to die in a pit despite being absolutely sure you pressed the jump button. It's also so hectic that you can find yourself jumping to avoid an obstacle but have no time to recover and make the jump to the next platform. Speaking of, the "JUMP! JUMP!" and "SLIDE! SLIDE!" voice prompts are downright irritating. As much as I hated the wave bike segment in Megaman 5, these board segments are absolutely worse by far.

5. As hinted at above, and last but not least: The... the infamous voice-acting. I know it's always made fun of but it really does suck, and really leaves a bad impression on the entire game. Megaman sounds like a girl, and his shouts and yells of "POWER SHOT!" can grate pretty quickly. But not as quickly as the dialogue from the bosses... holy hell. Frost Man and Clown Man stand out as the worst examples, Frost Man with a generic dumb brute voice with a slight accent, and Clown Man... who also sounds like a girl (I believe he and Megaman share an actor) and has to shout "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! MOMMY!" every time you use Tornado Hold on him. The cutscenes are just laughably and painfully bad, and if it were restricted to them alone, it would be fine, since you can use them as humor value or just skip them, but no, they had to slip the bad acting into the gameplay itself, and it really just makes the gameplay experience far less fun.

 

So... yeah. I'll be giving the 8-bit demake a crack sometime soon, and it will likely be the only version of Megaman 8 I ever play again. In the end it may not fix all the issues I had with the original version, but it'll fix a couple, including point #5, which for me is a very major point. Hopefully it delivers well, but I ain't ever touching the original version ever again.