303 replies to this topic

[Sheik]

Talking about caves, I've always had this idea of placing a bigish temple/ruin inside a cave. There'd be like a really huge gate inside a pretty random cave which has to be unlocked one way or the other (preferably much later than you first visit the place so the player can keep wondering what this is all about for a while) and behind there'd be some sacred templeish building. Maybe something like a church with much light and stuff. That'd be pretty cool 'cause no one would actually have suspected something like that in a dark random cavern.
I've never pulled that one off for some reason. I like to think the idea isn't bad so I figured I'd post it here to be of some inspiration or whatever. What I want to say is that caves don't forcefully need to be boring or generic. Almost everything you can do on an overworld can be done inside a cave, too.

[Schwa]

*points to signature profile*

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU~

I'll... answer your questions later, guys...

Gonna take a break for the night, then try and fix my game...

v_v

[Banjo7J]

What did you do that broke half the scripts?

[Moosh]

You...broke...half...your...scripts?

I feel your pain...I feel your pain...

[Russ]

Whoa. That sounds bad. Can't you just use the script file from your last backup?

[Schwa]

Whoa. That sounds bad. Can't you just use the script file from your last backup?

No, because that's just it: all this time I had been designing and utilizing faulty code. The realization finally added up last night that my options to expand the quest's enemy-based features would be GROSSLY limited in this state, so I had to convert every enemy script I ever wrote to a different system, delete ALL the enemies in every Screen in the whole Quest (which surprisingly wasn't as many as I thought), and the worst part is, this new system I'm using was the system I was specifically trying to AVOID all along because I "thought I had a better one" when it turned out this one was "the best one" and I should have used it in the first place. So I feel completely defeated and deflated.

Last night I started converting the enemy scripts and I got just under half of them done. I looked through the Goriya code and my own code no longer makes any sense to me, so I think half of it is due for an organization rewrite...

You know what I need to do!? I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO IMPORT. I need to learn how to organize and arrange all my various scripts on blank .ZH files and import them. The thing that scares me about that is that I don't think the Parser will catch any errors (or at least tell me what line they're on) if I do that, so that's discouraged me from learning, and I end up with this gigantic 100,000 byte+ Buffer that's really hard to read even with comments...

*sniff* Alright, I promised I'd answer questions...

Talking about caves, I've always had this idea of placing a bigish temple/ruin inside a cave. There'd be like a really huge gate inside a pretty random cave which has to be unlocked one way or the other (preferably much later than you first visit the place so the player can keep wondering what this is all about for a while) and behind there'd be some sacred templeish building. Maybe something like a church with much light and stuff. That'd be pretty cool 'cause no one would actually have suspected something like that in a dark random cavern.
I've never pulled that one off for some reason. I like to think the idea isn't bad so I figured I'd post it here to be of some inspiration or whatever. What I want to say is that caves don't forcefully need to be boring or generic. Almost everything you can do on an overworld can be done inside a cave, too.

This is an AMAZING idea. I think you should've used it! A church in a cave?? I love setting up that kind of thrill and adventure. I sorta did the same thing with Molka Elite when I put Turtle Rock underground (it was in a VERY obscure location).

I might use something close to your idea, but toned down. What I could do is devote a cut-off portion of the caves to a ruins/relic-esque area, which houses several very high-level secrets (100-Rupee drops, __ Containers, other rare items, etc.) but not much other than that. The area itself could be considered a type of sidequest. But I could link other sidequests to it occasionally, you know, "Bring me the head of a Snap Dragon, they only live HERE". (For the record, though, I'm hoping to make most of my non-mandatory NPC-sidequests NOT combat-based, I just needed a quick example.)

What kind of cave will it be? Will it be like the stereotypical Zelda 1 cave, or something more original? A kind of "magic" cave with crystals on the ground would look pretty cool.

Keep in mind the Overworld is an apocalyptic barren waste. The cave system is going to reflect that. And of course I design in my usual "hybrid/revisioned classic" style.

The Devilmouse seems interesting. Can they crawl into the ground and pop out like Leevers?

NO. Why would you even ask that? Don't you think I would have showed that if they did so?

Oh, by the way (...RUSS ), I went ahead and designed the Blue Devilmouse while I was converting my enemy scripts, since I was "in the area". No special attacks compared to the Red one, but when he uses his Rolling Attack he moves HORRENDOUSLY FAST and his attack hits you for over 10 damage. He also attacks fairly often, to the point of being almost ridiculous. ...You can probably imagine you don't start encountering them until you're a little more equipped to handle 'em~ The Level 2 Sword (Steel) delivers 6 to 8 damage per hit as opposed to the Wooden Sword's 2 to 4, and you get Heart Containers, plural, for every Boss or Mini-Boss you kill, optional or not, so while that 10 or whatever damage may kill you in 3 hits early on, later on you'll have sufficient endurance to afford an encounter with dangerous enemies like this.

When I make the Yellow (Level 3) Devilmouse, it'll have a more dangerous attack. Something like a riccoshet roll attack, shockwaves, homing abilities or I don't even know. Too many ideas right now, need to narrow it more later.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Alright, who wants an update? No use moping about my woes, and no use tiring myself out on them either. I went and added the next area (well, the first two screens at least) to give myself a change of pace.

Introducing the toxic swamp, Black Delta!



Note that I used the Level 4 cheat to get here; you can't normally get here until you've beaten Level 1 and acquired the Kindling Stone. Black Delta is where Level 2 will be located.

I'm pretty psyched about the palette choice here, too. It was an interesting idea, and sorta reminiscent of this from Zelda 1:


Only green instead of white. And I actually do have a white palette set in CSet 4, as you can see by the white dead tree and bushes and bridges. People are going to criticize me for this, though, and say it looks ugly. Hey, I did my job then, it's supposed to look ugly and make people wretch. I think I was trying to emulate Felwood when I made this.

You can't see it either, but I turned on Palette Cycling for this DMap. The neon green walls glow very faintly, dimming and brightening, and the black water does the same thing.

The gaseous clouds are FFCs that are set to appear at a random X,Y position on Screen Init, on every screen until you leave the DMap. Required literally only 2 lines of code: "this->X = Rand(16, 240); this->Y = Rand(8, 152);" plus turning on FFC Carryover and a bunch of other weird flags. I think it's pretty cool that I'm STILL learning new aspects of ZQuest considering how long I've been using it.

This is also (one of) the first appearances of Level 3 Enemies, which are yellow. The Yellow Octoroks specialize in speed; they can move faster than you and their shots BLAZE across the screen (about the same speed as the Longbow's attack), and can strike you for 6 damage. At this stage in the game... eh, that's average. You don't want it to add up, though.

Strategies: Attack them head-on, rather than from the side, using the rebound of the sword's attack to keep them at bay. If they keep coming at you, this way you can strike consecutive hits. The Slingshot is not recommended, even though it's more powerful it will be frustratingly hard to land a hit because of their speed and erratic movement (plus their ranged attacks can out-speed yours ). If you're fighting with the Kindling Stone, make sure to give yourself room when you set a flame down, otherwise if there's a wall too close to them it will halt their rebound early and they'll pass through your flame and reach you.

Then there are Blue and Yellow Like-Likes. The Blue ones are going to use a scripted behavior to steal your bombs, but I haven't written it yet and don't feel like messing with it right now. The Yellow ones eat you and steal your Rupees until you free yourself, and I MIGHT make them poison you too, haven't decided (I could always save that for the Level 4 Like Like when I make it, which is the color green).

Even if you have no Rupees to steal, though... um, don't get hit by a Yellow Like Like.



It's not worth it. It's just not.

[Neppy]

Oh wow. I am just in love with this area in general. First of all, the obscure palette intrigues me immensely. It does have an odd look to it, but it truly is kind of eye catching, and I love that there is palette cycling going on to give it a little eerie feeling to it.

Different Like Likes? OMG... those are just terrible enemies, but that's a good thing. It'll make you cherish your items, and make you a bit more cautious around them.

I'm also thrilled that the fog/clouds are going to be random, and not just sit in the exact same spot all the time, the random thing is just great. I still can't wait to see what else you have in store for us to see next. Keep up this great work!

[Banjo7J]

Whoa. This is awesome. I especially like the ideas for the new enemies. Especially how the yellow Like-Like is a punishment to slingshot-spammers. I assume the red Like-Like still steals your shield?

[Schwa]

Oh wow. I am just in love with this area in general. First of all, the obscure palette intrigues me immensely. It does have an odd look to it, but it truly is kind of eye catching, and I love that there is palette cycling going on to give it a little eerie feeling to it.

Different Like Likes? OMG... those are just terrible enemies, but that's a good thing. It'll make you cherish your items, and make you a bit more cautious around them.

I changed the white bushes a little, so the dark grey is not AS dark, and it seemed to make it a lot better. I knew there was something putting me off about it...

I'm also thrilled that the fog/clouds are going to be random, and not just sit in the exact same spot all the time, the random thing is just great. I still can't wait to see what else you have in store for us to see next. Keep up this great work!

It's two lines! Here you go!

CODE

ffc script RandomClouds
{
  void run()
  {
    this->X = Rand(240);
    this->Y = Rand(152);
  }
}

And then you just set the X or Y velocities in the FFC Editor. Or if you want to randomize the speeds too, add the line "this->Vx = Randf(n)" and change "n" to any decimal value you want. That's for X Speeds. For Y Speeds just change "Vx" to "Vy".

Oh and what I did with my clouds was have them as "Carrying Over" FFCs, so I only have to put them on entrance screens and they appear on every screen. If you do that, make sure to also check "Script Restarts on Carry Over" if you want the clouds to re-randomize every time you change screens.

Whoa. This is awesome. I especially like the ideas for the new enemies. Especially how the yellow Like-Like is a punishment to slingshot-spammers. I assume the red Like-Like still steals your shield?

The slingshot is highly effective on Like Likes! What are you talking about?

It's the yellow Octoroks that the Slingshot is bad against. They're very fast and VERY random, plus your Slingshot bullets have an extremely tiny hitbox: 2x2 pixels. You won't have much luck trying to shoot them when they pause to fire, either, because their shot will reach you before your shot is even halfway to them (that's how fast their bullets are, seriously), and by then they might have already dodged it.

The Red Like Likes do not steal your shield. How can they, when there is no shield in this quest?

In fact the Red ones don't even eat you at all! Right now they're just set to damage you. I don't entirely know what I'll do about all of the different colors and their behaviors; I'm not entirely satisfied with the Like Likes as it is, so anything you see/hear about them is subject to change.

[Banjo7J]

Whoa. This is awesome. I especially like the ideas for the new enemies. Especially how the yellow Like-Like is a punishment to slingshot-spammers. I assume the red Like-Like still steals your shield?

The slingshot is highly effective on Like Likes! What are you talking about?

What I meant was it would punish people who use the Slingshot as an answer to everything. Because the slingshot would run out of ammo eventually, meaning no rupees, meaning death by yellow pancakes Like-Likes. Damn you, Brawl in the Family.

The Red Like Likes do not steal your shield. How can they, when there is no shield in this quest?

Oh. Um...well, at least I don't have to worry about a Like-Like stealing my shield right before a room full of Wizzrobes anymore. Although frankly, I'm not sure which is worse.

Edited by Banjo7J, 06 February 2011 - 10:15 AM.

[Schwa]

What I meant was it would punish people who use the Slingshot as an answer to everything. Because the slingshot would run out of ammo eventually, meaning no rupees, meaning death by yellow pancakes Like-Likes. Damn you, Frawl in the Bamily.

You can't effectively win if you waste EVERYTHING on ammo. You're gonna want to buy some stuff, it's far more worth it to keep at least a small arsenal of special powers with you, and most of the shops in this game sell items you'll be hard-pressed to get anywhere else.

What this implies is that the Rupee-stealing Like-Likes pose a threat to both that, and the Slingshot.

But since Rupees are fairly more common than before, too, that helps things. Certain high-level enemies may start regularly dropping 100-Rupee pickups late-game.

Oh. Um...well, at least I don't have to worry about a Like-Like stealing my shield right before a room full of Wizzrobes anymore. Although frankly, I'm not sure which is worse.

Ah, no worries, there are other methods to protect yourself You'll just be learning how to all over again, is all.

You get the Raven's Feather, for instance, which you can switch on and off to phase through anything dangerous. While some RARE types of attacks can hit you through this cloak, you don't really have to worry about them much, all you have to worry about is mastering the timing. Skilled users will be able to phase in and out at the best and most precise instants and then launch a counterattack, without running out of fuel and without phasing back in when hazards are waiting.

There is also the Boomerang, which destroys weaker projectile attacks, and the more advanced Boomerangs that will destroy stronger ones like Magic or Sword Beams. You usually have to spend Rupees on the Boomerangs though.

Thirdly, Felix will learn how to use magic eventually, and one of his powers will allow him to stop projectile attacks or even send them back if the button is pressed with good-enough timing. It will be a LONG time before I get to script it though, because incorporating the Golden Magic System will require another overhaul to the Subscreen and the game-engine in general, plus he doesn't even get these skills until roughly... around Level 4.

ALSO.

Wizzrobes... By the time you start encountering those guys, Shields will be the last thing on your mind, my friend.

You see this?



Well, however close it GETS, it's not gonna leave Felix looking too hot.

[Moosh]

Black Delta is where Level 2 will be located.

Wow, Schwa. You're doing all you can to avoid completing level 1...

[Schwa]

Wow, Schwa. You're doing all you can to avoid completing level 1...

Don't insult me again. You have no idea what I'm "avoiding" or not.

[Moosh]

Um...that was kind of a joke. I know that whatever order you decide to work in, you're working your hardest and that's what matters.

[Schwa]

I couldn't tell it was a joke. I forgive you.

Anyway I just finished converting the two most complicated enemy scripts, the Goriya and the Wooden Doll, so I'm ALMOST DONE fixing the broken bits. While I was at it, I fixed a couple bugs with the code, too. Feeling pretty accomplished.

Now it's off to get a haircut! See you later~