399 replies to this topic

[Beefster]

Of course it doesn't sound as fun, but I can definitely see why they did this. It will make the game a lot more approachable and actually makes a lot of sense when you really think about it. Goron Link's rolling takes magic, why shouldn't Zora Link's swimming?

 

Not running into walls also sounds nice.

 

I will definitely miss the speed though, but still... Magic is pretty common anyway. And you could have double magic by the time you get Zora Link.

[Nicholas Steel]

It consuming magic I'm okay with, ut I'd have rathered they modify the environments under water, then to change the swimming mechanics. My main issue with the change is that you can't swim fast without the eye/ear candy.

Edited by franpa, 02 February 2015 - 02:30 AM.

[The Satellite]

So check out the new Gyorg fight:

 

 

It actually doesn't look like ass anymore. I approve.

[Haylee]

I'm loving the revamped version of this fight. Idk why people are saying this remake is going to be bad, so far, most of these design choices appear to be awesome.

[Limebeer]

I am so looking forwards to that fight! Looks like it can be a good time!

EDIT:
AHAHAHaHA!!! The best part I think is when he jumps on the platform to attack Link! that was hilarious!!!

I do like how they have it so you have to fight him under water there for the later half. It does look like a good fight to me!

Edited by Limebeer, 03 February 2015 - 06:31 PM.

[Nicholas Steel]

This alone indicates huge changes to every boss fight involving the majora eye. Most of the boss fights were fine though, they didn't need a ultra obvious weak point added. Their just shoe horning in shit in to the game at the expense of originality. Their turning it in to Generic Nintendo Adventure Game 2015.

 

They could've had it so that when dealt enough damage it would try to jump over the central platform like it does in the intro but falls short and lands it's entire body on the platform dazed with its own eye left open for you to sword attack. Same with knocking it out while it is on the water surface, just have its eye stay open for a while and its head swing around slowly while dazed.

 

The Majora Eyeball on the bosses is just an absolutely horrible and completely out of place looking thing that they tacked on to the bosses. I don't mind the changes to how you fight a boss, I just think they could've handled the visual presentation a TON better. (It's also mildly lame that the Majora Eye isn't in some way visually unique for each boss too)

Edited by franpa, 04 February 2015 - 05:49 AM.

[Koh]

Why does there need to be a super obvious glowing weakpoint anyway? Shouldn t the players be expected to figure it out by trying things? This is really starting to confirm Egoraptor's criticisms on Ocarina of Time.

[Limebeer]

This alone indicates huge changes to every boss fight involving the majora eye. Most of the boss fights were fine though, they didn't need a ultra obvious weak point added. Their just shoe horning in shit in to the game at the expense of originality. Their turning it in to Generic Nintendo Adventure Game 2015.

 

They could've had it so that when dealt enough damage it would try to jump over the central platform like it does in the intro but falls short and lands it's entire body on the platform dazed with its own eye left open for you to sword attack. Same with knocking it out while it is on the water surface, just have its eye stay open for a while and its head swing around slowly while dazed.

 

The Majora Eyeball on the bosses is just an absolutely horrible and completely out of place looking thing that they tacked on to the bosses. I don't mind the changes to how you fight a boss, I just think they could've handled the visual presentation a TON better. (It's also mildly lame that the Majora Eye isn't in some way visually unique for each boss too)

 

Why does there need to be a super obvious glowing weakpoint anyway? Shouldn t the players be expected to figure it out by trying things? This is really starting to confirm Egoraptor's criticisms on Ocarina of Time.

Unfortunately, and this is something that I've found in the quest that I'm making, is that just because you expect people to be able to figure things out on their own by trying things does not mean that they will. You and I may think of trying a whole bunch of things and in different ways until you find something that works (this is how I learnt the easy way to beat Gyorg in the original) but other people wouldn't, either by them not wishing to, or simply being unable to do so.
While I do agree, the aesthetics change with the majora eye is ugly and, in my opinion, unneeded, I do understand why they have it in, not only for a surprising amount of new players of this generation needing a shiny "hit me" weakness, but to show that the guardian of the mask is under -and infected by- Majora's sway.
Besides, before the whole body (besides the mask) was it's weakpoint before which you needed to hit. And if you think about it... hitting the giant eye in boss battles after you attack the main body a few times isn't a new concept to Zelda games (i.e. Kholdstare, Gohma). They just seemed to have added it into this fight because of how everyone hated fighting this boss and complained at it's difficulty.
Besides, I think that the fight may be a bit harder than it looks in the video, especially that second half.

[DCEnygma]

As an testament to players sometimes not getting it, I consider myself a pretty thoughtful and rational gamer. I'm usually able to identify patterns and understand strategies for bosses without assistance. That said, the boss of the 2nd temple in Twilight Princess for whatever reason, I didn't get. I didn't realize you could trip him up. So instead, I just hit him with arrows over and over again until he fell down and then I killed him. In that case, the developers seemed to actually account for someone brute forcing the boss and allowed other options. But that is clearly only in there because not everyone will be able to figure it out, but this way you can still get through the fight.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that things like that ultimately don't bother me, because it allows me to keep moving on with the game, and later on I can still learn what I did wrong and correct it. That said, I don't remember any of the bosses from MM since it's been so long since I last played it, and I only got through 2 temples anyways, so I'll be going into this with no knowledge of the original. I guess this means I'm the target market for the remake? I'm pretty excited to see how it goes.

[Joelmacool]

That boss looks much better now... can't wait to play the game!

[The Satellite]

The eye does make sense in a story context, since the bosses were, as mentioned above, under Majora's control, and the spirits themselves I believed were not evil, just possessed. So it adds that layer to the gameplay as well, although admittedly I wonder how it changes the Goht fight. If a big eye pops out of its face and you have to attack that after tripping up Goht... I'd probably be a little annoyed at the fight. Unless the eye is in the back, in which case that's fine I guess.

 

The bosses were never one of Majora's Mask's strong points anyway, in my opinion. Except for Majora, that fight was fantastic. 

[Shane]

I never really had much of a problem with "weak spots" anyway. Most Zelda game bosses are like a mix of a battle, theatrical event and puzzle all in one. 

 

I like how the bosses are being improved for the best. They don't look any less hard, but look at lot more fair. And heck, they have multiple ways of being fought, which is awesome.

Edited by Shane, 04 February 2015 - 04:38 PM.

[Koh]

Unfortunately, and this is something that I've found in the quest that I'm making, is that just because you expect people to be able to figure things out on their own by trying things does not mean that they will. You and I may think of trying a whole bunch of things and in different ways until you find something that works (this is how I learnt the easy way to beat Gyorg in the original) but other people wouldn't, either by them not wishing to, or simply being unable to do so.

I don't see why someone would be unable to try different tactics in boss fights.  Most normal games expect you to figure out the enemy patterns through experience.  As for them not wishing to...that'd be the dumbest reason ever to not change tactics when you realize something isn't working.  It's like failing a test because they didn't study enough, and then decide to repeat the same mistake on the next test.  If it didn't work the first time, it's not going to work the second time, and it's a sign something needs to change.  

 

It's hard to get excited about a boss fight, when the boss is basically wearing a bullseye.  It's like "Gee, I WONDER how I damage this boss."

 

The bosses didn't need bullseyes in the older games, so why do they need them now?  Are modern gamers really that impatient?  If so, that's incredibly sad.

Edited by Koh, 04 February 2015 - 04:34 PM.

[Shane]

Technically, weak spots have been a thing since Zelda 1 and a Link to the Past. For example, the boss in Turtle Rock, with the fire and ice heads. Those are some obvious weak spots. So I wouldn't say this is a modern Zelda game convention nor blame the "modern gamers".

Edited by Shane, 04 February 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[Limebeer]

I don't see why someone would be unable to try different tactics in boss fights.  Most normal games expect you to figure out the enemy patterns through experience.  As for them not wishing to...that'd be the dumbest reason ever to not change tactics when you realize something isn't working.  It's like failing a test because they didn't study enough, and then decide to repeat the same mistake on the next test.  If it didn't work the first time, it's not going to work the second time, and it's a sign something needs to change.  

 

It's hard to get excited about a boss fight, when the boss is basically wearing a bullseye.  It's like "Gee, I WONDER how I damage this boss."

 

The bosses didn't need bullseyes in the older games, so why do they need them now?  Are modern gamers really that impatient?  If so, that's incredibly sad.

It's always been basically obvious on how to injure bosses. Any Gohma boss you know, strike the eye. Dodondago? The fairy tells you to throw an explosion when he inhales. Any boss in the Zelda series, you are basically told on what to do. Yes some hints are more obvious than others, but all in all it's been obvious on the weakness. Hell, the giant Octorock in Jabu-Jabu's belly in OOT had a literally a glowing blue/green (depending on your television) ass that you knew you had to hit!

In Zelda 1 you knew Hit Aquamentus on the horn. It was obvious. Gohma, again, it had an eye you knew to hit. Manhandla, you hit the heads and once they vanished you knew to do the same on the others. Zelda II was the same way. Horsehead, the head was a different colour. You knew to strike it.
Moldorom in Link's Awakening, you knew to hit the tail. it was shiny and different.

I think what is turning you off on the boss is that now you have foreknowledge on it, on what to expect. If it came about as you played and didn't know of it it probably would have been seamless in the gameplay and been just another aspect of it. It probably wouldn't be obvious that it would regurgitate the eye until you actually made it do so in-game if you didn't see that video, if they didn't showcase it. You wouldn't know if it's a weakness, or if it's just a visual change to show it's Majora taking control over it to more be a part of an overall theme.