180 replies to this topic

[Sheik]

I'm separating the two because the bible is a compilation - it contains content which is claimed to be "The Word of God" but also contains the stories of people who sought to find God, and those who had interactions with Jesus (I think this would be an excellent time to cite Job). In other words, much of the bible is not, in fact, the word of God, but a chronicle of events as described by those who witnessed them.

TL;DR, The bible describes God, yes, but not everything in the bible is the word of God, and that is why I separate them. I'm not completely discarding the ideas of the bible, I'm just taking them with a grain of salt.

EDIT: Sorry, my thoughts are a bit scattered, I realize now that I misinterpreted what you were asking. Anyway, I'm separating God from the Bible because of the fact that the bible was basically 4kids-dubbed by the 9th century Europeans who took out any verses which contradicted the teachings they wanted to promote. This mostly involved removing anything which referred to Jesus as anything other than the son of God, but they made several other changes if I recall. So I find that while the idea of the Christian God is still there, his 'teachings' that the bible describes could very well be just a product of the ideals of the times.

But still, no bible, no god, right? Or at least: no potential knowledge about god.

Also, you keep saying that lots of that what's written in the bible is not "The Word of God". So, may I ask, what is the word of god (and how do you know)?

[Fabbrizio]

Also, you keep saying that lots of that what's written in the bible is not "The Word of God". So, may I ask, what is the word of god (and how do you know)?

You phrased that kind of oddly. Within the bible, the word of God is, of course, anything quoted from God. I thought that was obvious.

But pertaining to my other argument about the bible being revised, I honestly have absolutely no idea what the word of God is. All I know is that there is the strong chance that what the bible claims to be "the word of God" might be propaganda. That's why I just stick to basic morals. Don't hurt others to achieve your own ends, and if you are put in the unlikely situation that you must hurt someone, pay back your debt as soon as possible. And that's really as far as it goes for me.

Edited by PowerGauntlets, 07 August 2011 - 03:52 PM.

[Sheik]

You phrased that kind of oddly. Within the bible, the word of God is, of course, anything quoted from God. I thought that was obvious.

Sometimes, I don't ask questions because I don't know the answer but because I want to make people think about what they say. Which is what I was doing here:

But pertaining to my other argument about the bible being revised, I honestly have absolutely no idea what the word of God is. All I know is that there is the strong chance that what the bible claims to be "the word of God" might be propaganda. That's why I just stick to basic morals. Don't hurt others to achieve your own ends, and if you are put in the unlikely situation that you must hurt someone, pay back your debt as soon as possible. And that's really as far as it goes for me.

Here you say that you don't know what the word of god is.

THIS. So much.

Seriously, you can make up whatever you want about what God wants you to do, but in the end, if you live your life without stepping on too many toes, there won't be much left to be desired from you when you leave this world.

And here you techincally claim to know what god's will is.

This seems to be a little contradicting.

[ShadowTiger]

Here you say that you don't know what the word of god is.

Because we don't know for certain what has been recorded that hasn't been twisted. It's entirely possible that the most accurate copies of the bible that have all been verified to be the most accurate, are even still based on a single copy that has been twisted and mistranslated with false sayings injected into it. We don't know if that copy has been preserved, and to what degree. Far too much time has passed for us to be able to know.

I am personally operating on the concept that God (Which I will not refer to as the Judeochristian god.) is a "perfect" and omniscient being, and like Jesus, will operate on the concept that Perfection is derived from Perfection. The world is not perfect, (Unless it somehow is.) so the world did not come from him.

Hell, Jesus himself thought that God's word in the Old Testament pertaining to the nasty things it writes (All that murder, owning of slaves, barring of witches, etc) are horrific and detestable. Jesus was about perfect forgiveness, and perfect spirituality. He was humble to a point not where he was worthless, but to a point where he was just another soul in a body, and he thought of everyone else like that; as equals. (Also, why did you highlight this? Are you getting paranoid? ... Even worse, why did I try to hide this? Am I getting paranoid? O_O' Eek.)

[Fabbrizio]

And here you techincally claim to know what god's will is.

This seems to be a little contradicting.

I never claimed to know what God's will is. Logically, if being kind and respectful to others isn't something God values, that's not a God I'd particularly care to worship.

Also, basically what ShadowTiger said. Except for that last part, I'd like to think that the contradiction of our world has actually created a sort of balance, and that balance can be a form of perfection. But that's not really a discussion for here, so I'll drop that point

Edited by PowerGauntlets, 07 August 2011 - 07:11 PM.

[NoeL]

PowerGauntlets, all you're doing is saying "I think I should live my life like this" and then replacing "I think" with "God thinks" to give yourself a sense of authority. You're projecting your own conscience onto this blank canvas and calling it "God". Once you realise you don't need to do that to have a sense of moral agency you might even stop believing in God altogether.

[Sheik]

I never claimed to know what God's will is.

I assume we all agree that in Christianity, if a person lives after God's will he will have an afterlife in paradise. Right? Well, you claim to know what it is that you have to do (certain lifestyle) to live in heaven once you've passed.

THIS. So much.

Seriously, you can make up whatever you want about what God wants you to do, but in the end, if you live your life without stepping on too many toes, there won't be much left to be desired from you when you leave this world.

^that's where you claim to know which lifestyle will open the pearly gates.


A=B (life after God's will = paradise)
C=B (certain lifestye = paradise)
=> A=B=C (life after God's will = paradise = certain lifestyle)
=> A=C (life after God's will = certain lifestyle)

Yes, you claim to know what god's will is.
Yet you admit that you have no idea what the word of God is (which will have his will written/spoken in it, right?). Sorry, but that is contradicting.

Edited by Sheik91, 08 August 2011 - 05:15 AM.

[Fabbrizio]

PowerGauntlets, all you're doing is saying "I think I should live my life like this" and then replacing "I think" with "God thinks" to give yourself a sense of authority. You're projecting your own conscience onto this blank canvas and calling it "God". Once you realise you don't need to do that to have a sense of moral agency you might even stop believing in God altogether.

You're missing the point altogether. It's more like throwing my ideas on a blank canvas and saying "if God isn't like this, then to hell with God". I'm not claiming to know what God's will is, I'm taking my idea of what I think a reasonable God would be, and following that, because if God wasn't like that, I wouldn't want to worship him/her/it.

[NoeL]

You're missing the point altogether. It's more like throwing my ideas on a blank canvas and saying "if God isn't like this, then to hell with God". I'm not claiming to know what God's will is, I'm taking my idea of what I think a reasonable God would be, and following that, because if God wasn't like that, I wouldn't want to worship him/her/it.

But then you're just worshiping your own ideals anyway. So why bother positing imaginary friends in the first place?

[Fabbrizio]

But then you're just worshiping your own ideals anyway. So why bother positing imaginary friends in the first place?

No, I'm giving myself a reason to follow my own ideals. No different from any other religion, it's just that I'm following my own rather than a pre-made cookie cutter religion.

[NoeL]

No, I'm giving myself a reason to follow my own ideals. No different from any other religion, it's just that I'm following my own rather than a pre-made cookie cutter religion.

For what purpose though? Things don't become true or false based on whether or not you like them. What's the point in making up your own God to worship above other concepts of God if it's no more likely to be true?

[Fabbrizio]

For what purpose though? Things don't become true or false based on whether or not you like them. What's the point in making up your own God to worship above other concepts of God if it's no more likely to be true?

We've had this discussion before, NoeL. It's a placebo. I know you don't like that concept, but it's served me well, and it will continue to serve me well. It keeps me moving forward.

Edited by PowerGauntlets, 08 August 2011 - 08:53 AM.

[NoeL]

We've had this discussion before, NoeL. It's a placebo. I know you don't like that concept, but it's served me well, and it will continue to serve me well. It keeps me moving forward.

But placebos only work when you don't know they're placebos. If you know it's a willful delusion then how is it possibly comforting to you?

[Fabbrizio]

But placebos only work when you don't know they're placebos. If you know it's a willful delusion then how is it possibly comforting to you?

Let me put it to you this way: I specialize in writing fiction because I'm able to convince myself that my imagination is reality and act accordingly. I use the same method for God, except I'm not trying to create a fantasy world, I'm trying to create a path to my own happiness without hurting people. Maybe that's the aspergers in action, but it works for me, so I'm completely content.

I'm not hurting anyone, and I'm not telling anyone else to do what I'm doing. It works.

Edited by PowerGauntlets, 08 August 2011 - 09:39 AM.

[NoeL]

I'm trying to create a path to my own happiness

Wouldn't you want to base that around something that's true?