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The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D


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#136 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 04:43 AM

Yeah, I can ignore it, just like I can ignore the free powerups for dying too often in the mario games. It still doesn't mean I like the decision. I've never understood the "just ignore it if you don't like it" argument.

 

In all honestly, I can understand why this is a good choice from a marketing standpoint in making the game appeal to as many people as possible. But for me personally, it seems like a step in the wrong direction.

Indeed the changes to the bombers notebook should've been enough help in multi-tasking and those that want to single-task. This change to song of double time though just gives the player waaay too much freedom and control over time and completely nullifies the penalty of missing an appointment. You missed an appointment/event? Go back in time then forward to the specific hour required, bam.



#137 The Satellite

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 05:50 AM

... you can't go backward in time though. So there's no removal of any penalty, except the "penalty" of waiting around for something to happen. In some cases we'll still be waiting around, but for far less than before, since there are events that happen at quarter increments as well. If you could go backward in time, I too would think that's too lenient, but for those of us who don't multitask or prefer doing one quest at a time, it's just right.



#138 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 06:19 AM

... you can't go backward in time though. So there's no removal of any penalty, except the "penalty" of waiting around for something to happen. In some cases we'll still be waiting around, but for far less than before, since there are events that happen at quarter increments as well. If you could go backward in time, I too would think that's too lenient, but for those of us who don't multitask or prefer doing one quest at a time, it's just right.

Song of Time, takes you back to the start of the first day (Backwards in time!).

Play that song if you overshoot an event.

Play song of double time to choose an hour to warp to.

Do you not see this obvious loop hole here to basically skip waiting for anything?


Edited by franpa, 16 January 2015 - 06:20 AM.


#139 Aevin

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 06:58 AM

Well, going back to the first day does reset things, so it wouldn't work for events that require others to be completed in order to work. Yeah, you could just skip forward to those particular events after resetting, but from the sound of it that's how some people play. They want to be able to complete one specific quest on each cycle, and just fast forward past the idle time. I still say it offers a little too much flexibility, but in the end if it helps more people appreciate a game that I love, then I'm gonna try pretty hard to be okay with it.


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#140 Shane

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:00 AM

Indeed the changes to the bombers notebook should've been enough help in multi-tasking and those that want to single-task. This change to song of double time though just gives the player waaay too much freedom and control over time and completely nullifies the penalty of missing an appointment. You missed an appointment/event? Go back in time then forward to the specific hour required, bam.

That's exactly why I don't go out exploring for stuff while I wait for an event to occur, because you get punished with even more waiting if you miss it. It discourages exploration and promotes you to sit there and just imagine a loading screen that says "Loading event... Please wait...". The new song that apparently "breaks the challenge" only kills the time you waste on waiting for something to happen. How people can compare this to a "super guide" and such is really far beyond me.


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#141 Avaro

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 09:05 AM

I always found it very fun to fill my cycles with as much as possible, like Aevin said, and I never was wasting time by just waiting for something to happen. However, I welcome the new song of double time. It's not a bad idea.


Edited by Avataro, 16 January 2015 - 09:06 AM.

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#142 Air Luigi

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 01:43 PM

Well, going back to the first day does reset things, so it wouldn't work for events that require others to be completed in order to work. Yeah, you could just skip forward to those particular events after resetting, but from the sound of it that's how some people play. They want to be able to complete one specific quest on each cycle, and just fast forward past the idle time. I still say it offers a little too much flexibility, but in the end if it helps more people appreciate a game that I love, then I'm gonna try pretty hard to be okay with it.

 

 

It's all a plan to setting things in a future "Z1 Aonuma Edition". Marked walls everywhere, bomb bags with 99 bombs, barriers to secure the correct dungeon order and even bushes on the first screen to secure that players obtained the sword. AND PUZZLES EVERYWHERE, EVERY ROOM IS A PUZZLE. Aonuma style.

 

5CUnWy9E6kaZqicdH7B9_g2.gif


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#143 Shane

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 01:54 PM

barriers to secure the correct dungeon order 

You know, because A Link Between World and Zelda U aren't things. Besides, this is all over just a song. A. Song. The challenge is still there; we have Great Bay Temple, we still have dozens of side-quests that can't be managed within 3 days. They are just more accessible by cutting out the wait. This could also benefit some speedrunners that want to 100% complete it in addition. If that's such a big deal to you then maybe you should play the original instead. I don't want to feel like waiting for my doctor's appointment, that's not my kind of gameplay.

 

Besides Aonuma makes the best Zelda games. Aonuma is love. Aonuma is life.


Edited by Shane, 16 January 2015 - 02:03 PM.

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#144 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 02:34 PM

Well, at least we can revel in the fact that the new save system enables save scumming.


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#145 Limebeer

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 02:35 PM

You know, because A Link Between World and Zelda U aren't things. Besides, this is all over just a song. A. Song. The challenge is still there; we have Great Bay Temple, we still have dozens of side-quests that can't be managed within 3 days. They are just more accessible by cutting out the wait. This could also benefit some speedrunners that want to 100% complete it in addition. If that's such a big deal to you then maybe you should play the original instead. I don't want to feel like waiting for my doctor's appointment, that's not my kind of gameplay.

 

Besides Aonuma makes the best Zelda games. Aonuma is love. Aonuma is life.

I agree, all this drama for a remake - not an emulation port over but a full remake which, being from the nature of remakes will have some differences and changes- and one song. A song that I didn't even know about in my first playthrough, and one i rarely used after finding out about it. And really, people complaining about it and saying such negative things about a change like this... it's ridiculous. Mostly because they changed it to not only comply with the gameplay changes that having it on a portable and whole new system with different features creates in and of itself, but they listened to people's opinions on the original, they took what people where complaining about and they are giving a change and showing they listened to their fans.

I, for one, am extremely excited for this remake, and I can't wait to play it and try out new features and see how it differs from the original, to have a renewed experience in one of my favorite games. I think people should keep that in mind, it's a renewed experience, not an emulation of an experience with better graphics.


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#146 Air Luigi

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 03:10 PM

The time and save changes contradicts the MM design philosophies and the point of the game, that's unquestionable. You can like the change, and it's very fine, and other people can complain and it's fine also. If you think that cheating in the game is good, fine, but I can't disagree more, sorry X) All the changes in the game are just for marketing purposes, and I honestly don't care if some people can't digest the original MM. Not every game is for every one. The best games are for a concrete public, games that tried to please everyone usually are left in no man's land (Twilight Princess for example). We saw this even in quests, that's why there are genres and different design philosophies.

Saying that, I thought it was evident that my last post was in "a jokey mood" xD


Edited by Air Luigi, 16 January 2015 - 03:12 PM.

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#147 Limebeer

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 03:21 PM

The time and save changes contradicts the MM design philosophies and the point of the game, that's unquestionable. You can like the change, and it's very fine, and other people can complain and it's fine also. If you think that cheating in the game is good, fine, but I can't disagree more, sorry X) All the changes in the game are just for marketing purposes, and I honestly don't care if some people can't digest the original MM. Not every game is for every one. The best games are for a concrete public, games that tried to please everyone usually are left in no man's land (Twilight Princess for example). We saw this even in quests, that's why there are genres and different design philosophies.

Saying that, I thought it was evident that my last post was in "a jokey mood" xD

Haha, yeah that post was hilarious xD I loved the troll mask animation you tacked on the end too :)

But yeah, your post here speaks truth. No matter what you can't please everyone, and you're right on why we have different genres and design philosophies here, so that instead of trying to please everyone, everyone can find what pleases them so the quality of the games don't degrade.


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#148 The Satellite

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 05:57 PM

Song of Time, takes you back to the start of the first day (Backwards in time!).


I misread you, it looked as though you were under the impression that the Song of Double Time let you rewind hours if you messed something up. I'm more than aware of the Song of Time. I'd never had to reset a cycle due to a missed trigger, but if I did, I'm more likely to find out what's left I can do in that cycle rather than just start over. Ya know, unless it's the last or one of the last quests in the game.

 

Look at it from my perspective: I play Zelda games for adventure, exploration, and dungeon-crawling at my leisure. Do I love the worlds that are presented and want to get to know them? Yes. But at my pace. Majora's Mask takes that from me. Is it a bad system? No, and were it not a Zelda game, I'd probably be pretty cool with it. But seeing as it's a Zelda game, I can't enjoy it as much as others because it takes away that freedom to do things exactly when I want, not have to go this certain day and time in this certain cycle. In my eyes, there is literally zero challenge to waiting around, it's merely an annoying hindrance. As Limebeer said, I'm glad Aonuma listened to the fans and accommodated this simple change for us; as a Zelda fan, I want to enjoy the games as much as everyone else, even if in a different way. As I understand, many people already enjoy the same Zelda games for different reasons already. People who want to manage their time and plan out everything ahead still can, and those of us who are either impatient, paranoid, or focusing on one sidequest at a time can work through it faster.

 

The game now accommodates myriad playstyles. I personally think that's an upgrade.

 

Yeah, I get it, those of you who preferred the old system, you feel like something's being taken away. But to write off a feature some of us are excited for as "simplifying" or "cheating" is really insulting, and just not accurate. Are you trying to alienate us, or possible newcomers who were similarly wary about the time system? Do you not want people to be able to enjoy this game in some degree? Different strokes for different folks and all that, and I'm sure there will be people who love the change but still not like the game that much, but there are many of us who perceived this as one of the few issues with the game. We're happy it's changed, and many of the comments from the detractors are basically coming off as belittling and trying to make us seem inferior.

 

If this is not your intent, I strongly implore you to check your language first before posting. I may have said some belittling things myself, but I was frustrated by a lot of things I'd read up to that point, people whining that the game was literally ruined just because of this change, people who cried out for the game for ages and now they're only complaining about the changes, and I'm all-out aggravated as hell by it. I apologize for the antagonistic things I've said, and I'll try to avoid it, all I ask is for some mutual respect in return. :-/


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#149 Air Luigi

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:23 PM

Players should accommodate to the style of games, and not the games to the players, that's my vision of gaming. Why? Because players usually don't know what they want. The people that don't like the original game probably still wouldn't like this one...

The new too convenient time system, leads the player to be impatient. There are a lot of details and secret events in MM that you can only see wandering and bumping to them. The new song diminished these chances, and the save system derails the uniqueness of every cycle as a independent adventure where you can't save permanently. There aren't any mandatory events that required a concrete time, except the entrance to the Clock Tower. Funny thing is that Nintendo was always for everyone in a sense, but they are leading the things to ridiculous extremes sometimes, because MM isn't a game that need changes in their core.



#150 Ventus

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:26 PM

I don't see why everyone is so butthurt over the song of time thingy *Rolls Eyes* What we should be really be pissed at is that its coming out next month >:(

 

I don't have time to pay off the game before it releases.




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