326 replies to this topic

[James24]

Gleeok, dude, I can see that LoH has taken its toll on you. Just chill out - its just a game! I can imagine that at some point you zero-gamed almost every challenge quest and then now this... Take consolation in the fact that you got to level 6 without cheating - that's the third best achievement ever. Buy the items in OUCH!'s shops and finish the game - at least you can say that you completed LoH hmm? If you prefer not to cheat, then you might have to ask me for strategies on how to conquer the remaining dungeons. If you know how, its moderately challenging instead of near impossible.

As for the one-heart continue, its not a bug, its more of a work-around since I didn't know how to script at that time. How else was I supposed to get the player to exit the dungeon? If the enemies were all to reset when the player dies it wouldn't have been an issue, but since they don't, I had to do something. Maybe you could make this a rule in future ZC versions? But yeah, any help with scripting would be appreciated.

Yes, I can pass the digdogger room with a very high probability. I'd back myself 9 times out of 10 - but I do die there occasionally so I wouldn't say 10 out of 10. Blue candle is my friend...

Have you seen my video on youtube on level 9 that you asked?

[Love For Fire]

When does the Ladder become accessible? Currently trying to get the hook-shot, pretty sure I have the right strategy, he just always seems to get me (damn you switching conveyors )

[James24]

Ladder becomes accessible once you get the hookshot from the switching-conveyor death knight. See one of my previous posts for the right strategy.

To get the ladder, another tough death-knight fight this time with hookshot Links.

I wish to announce that I WITHDRAW permission for people to play my quest unless they have completed Armageddon Quest first. In other words, I do not give players permission to download and play my quest unless they have completed Armageddon Quest. Since I can't police whoever is downloading my quest, know that my monsters can find out pretty quickly if you have completed Armageddon Quest and will stop you dead in your tracks if you haven't. If you have not got permission to play my quest, please do not come and rate, comment or otherwise criticize my quest. You should simply pretend it does not exist. The forums should be more peaceful this way.

If you've already started playing my quest and haven't completed Armageddon Quest, then please continue, you still have permission since I didn't state that at the time of download.

[SofaKing]

I don't think it works that way. You're a real piece of work, dude.

[Moonbread]

I really don't want to bring more problems into this, and yet... Eh, sure, I'll say it.

Some people aren't going to like your quest. It's simple as that. But let me say something- video games are fun. They're just supposed to be that. Fun. If someone doesn't find your game fun, then it's just not their cup of tea. To be honest, I probably wouldn't like this quest, but mainly because I don't like challenge type stuff- well, at least not in the Zelda style. I like platformers when they're near-impossible, but that's just because that's how I've always enjoyed them. That's why I play Mega Man, Super Meat Boy, and VVVVVV a lot. It doesn't click with me for top-down action/adventure games. They're not...fast-paced enough I guess.

But really? Your argument is about as valid as if someone said "You can't play Mega Man 3 until you've played Mega Man 2." People don't normally think this way. And if people don't like your game, then honestly? Suck it up. Not everyone is going to like my quest. Every quest has its haters, and honestly, we just man up and don't give a good god damn. That's what keeps me working on my quest just about every day now. For example, I know you'll probably hate my quest because I'm attempting to create something balanced and plot-centric, and I know you've expressed dislike toward such things before. But it doesn't matter! Someone's going to dislike it. I can't say "Go play x, y, and z before you play Mementos so you can fully appreciate it!" They'll either appreciate it or they won't. My idea of fun can be different from someone else's, and that's how LIFE is. What I think is fascinating is completely different from the next guy, and same goes for the next guy too. There is no universal agreement on the exact idea of fun.

And honestly, it doesn't really help all that much if you just pretend the problems don't exist. From what it looks like, you're not going to accept if someone doesn't like your quest, and you just don't want to deal with complaints, which by the way? Everyone else deals with. It's called being criticized and it will always happen. It's not necessarily a bad thing, you're just turning it into something bad. Instead of legitimately asking people why they think the way they do, you just insult their skills and say they're not good enough, because it looks like you'd rather not deal with the fact that people don't think you've made the greatest thing in ZC since Lost Isle or Hero of Dreams.

I'm sorry if I come off as harsh, but you know what? Someone has to say this, man.

[James24]

Scootaloo, I have never pretended that problems don't exist. If a top challenge quest player, say like Yowza, were to criticize my game after having completed it I am willing to listen to his suggestions for improvement. But how can I possibly listen to someone who has less adept fighting ability who has only completed one or at most 2 fortresses and then rage quit? They are simply not in a position to pass judgement on my quest because they can't appreciate the fun and joy of challenge quests. Those players who can't fight should NOT be playing LoH for benefit of peace in these forums because we all know what happens when players lose too many times and don't get anywhere...

I will also repeat the gist of my previous posts for you Scootaloo. From the minute I started making LoH, I knew it wouldn't be the next Lost Isle or Hero of Dreams. But hey, I didn't make LoH for popluarity, fame, reputation, rating or anything else you think drives quest makers. I made it because I wanted a fun quest to play on. I knew that it would be very unpopular for the simple reason that I am exposing a very sensitive and touchy area in Zelda - that most players lack the skills to fight properly. I only ever made LoH for ME and the small challenge quest community that exists. I never made it for you and I really don't care what you or the rest of the ZC community thinks of my quest. I love my quest. I play it every day. I am going to make "Insanity's End" which will make LoH seem really easy.

I don't make quests for you Scootaloo or anyone else for that matter and I really don't care what you think about LoH or its popularity. Once you beat LoH with no cheats, then come and talk to me and I guarantee you, I'll be a lot more receptive. I'm sorry if I come off as harsh, but you know what? Someone has to say this, man.

One thing you're right about Scootaloo is that we all have our own version of what is fun. This is my fun. LoH is how I like to play. This is how I love my Zelda Classic and I will never change for anyone. I knew it wouldn't be other player's version of fun and I would say to them improve or quit. But no, they insist on having a go at me through comments, ratings or otherwise. So I rebut those criticisms and people aren't happy about that.

As for my withdrawl of permission, don't you realize that this is the only way peace can be achieved? The good players should stick with hard quests and the less adept should stick to their easy quests. Everyone's happy playing at their level of difficulty. Otherwise, there is always going to be conflict when the less adept player gets beaten many times in a row and seeks to retaliate for their loss through comments, rating or otherwise. I could give many examples, but I don't want to flame things any more so I will refrain. If I withdraw permission for players to play my quest then it gives people a face-saving excuse to not play instead of having to fess up the reality that they can't beat LoH.

But, I am powerless to determine who has or has not beaten Armageddon quest, much less stop people from downloading my quest. So, if players want to download and play, then its truly their fault for getting beaten. I warned them. I didn't give them permission, but no...they insisted on playing. By withdrawing permission, I am ensuring that everyone has a good time. It will stop players who don't have the necessary skills from attempting something beyond their level of expertise and so stop them from getting their ego destroyed.

[Shane]

But how can I possibly listen to someone who has less adept fighting ability who has only completed one or at most 2 fortresses and then rage quit?

...

If you have not got permission to play my quest, please do not come and rate, comment or otherwise criticize my quest.

When people submit a shot in SotW or even just in the screenshot thread, take a look at people's responses when they get criticism - do they say "do X before criticizing mine or else I'll refuse to take it" or "you have to complete my quest; just looking at that shot is not good enough to take your piece of criticism"? No, they accept it and improve. I'm criticizing 1/2 of your overworld screens, a whole fortress, 1/2 of a fortress, a final dungeon seen via video and various screenshots in the database. That's enough to say "this quest looks average". Bottom line: take any criticism possible, it will improve your future quests and let me tell you; it improved mine more a lot. I'm taking your word in the other thread about improving design, may I ask is there going to be a "remake" with the same amount of difficulty and enemies and/or just a remake with harder difficulty?

That's all my input, I'm not saying anymore.

--

So far I've completed a 1/2 of Fortress 2 and explored a big chuck of the overworld, and even found Level 9. So far my death count is 21.

Edited by Shane, 09 May 2012 - 06:32 AM.

[Rambly]

Scootaloo's already addressed most of the points that James24 has made, so there's no need to repeat what he's said, but I feel Shane needs addressing as well...

When people submit a shot in SotW or even just in the screenshot thread, take a look at people's responses when they get criticism - do they say "do X before criticizing mine or else I'll refuse to take it" or "you have to complete my quest; just looking at that shot is not good enough to take your piece of criticism"? No, they accept it and improve. I'm criticizing 1/2 of your overworld screens, a whole fortress, 1/2 of a fortress, a final dungeon seen via video and various screenshots in the database. That's enough to say "this quest looks average".

The Liberation of Hyrule is not necessarily my cup of tea -- I briefly tried it but it didn't take very long at all for me to get tired of it and quit... I just don't find challenge quests all that enjoyable, and I'll leave it at that.

With that said, there's more to quest design than pretty screens or eye candy. You may have your own idea of what constitutes good quest design. You're more than welcome to give people suggestions on how they could improve their quest... However, there comes a point where you just have to accept that other peoples' quest design decisions differ from yours. If people are set in their ways, it's a waste of time to try and change them.

Repeatedly shoving criticism down others' throats isn't a very good way to get people to change their minds -- if anything, it's a good way to make enemies and make people feel like you're antagonizing them. If James24 wants to make his quest a particular way, that's his prerogative.

[Gleeok]

Gleeok, dude, I can see that LoH has taken its toll on you. Just chill out - its just a game! I can imagine that at some point you zero-gamed almost every challenge quest and then now this... Take consolation in the fact that you got to level 6 without cheating - that's the third best achievement ever. Buy the items in OUCH!'s shops and finish the game - at least you can say that you completed LoH hmm? If you prefer not to cheat, then you might have to ask me for strategies on how to conquer the remaining dungeons. If you know how, its moderately challenging instead of near impossible.

Have you seen my video on youtube on level 9 that you asked?

? Sorry, but I haven't played any more of the quest in the last week or so. I have quest ADD (It's a medical thing ) and can only spend so many hours on one thing at a time. Plus, I've been busy with other stuff.

Yes, I just saw the video. Very good! You must get tons of items in LV7-8 because that is the largest assortment of powerful items and bombs I have ever seen in a quest. I didn't know you got all those at first viewing of LV9, so it looked impossible at first. heh.

[James24]

Shane, there are many things I would like to say to you but I will refrain from doing so to keep the peace around here. I am happy to continue discussing LoH with you but not here. I've included my email address in my quest see the author field. Send me an email and we'll discuss it in private there where I will speak my full mind - no holds barred. All I will say is that if you don't like a quest - just don't play it. Just ignore it and ignore me. Please, for the good of everyone.

Gleeok, I thought that you had quit because you lost too many times in level 6 so I offered you some nice words of consolation. Apologies if I was mistaken. You get some nice items when you open up Link's tomb once the triforce is put together. They include Master Sword, Medicine, Super Bombs, Gold Arrow, Medicine and Big Wallet. Technically, its possible to finish level 9 without these nice things but I've never done that before. Even with those items the best I can achieve is a narrow win - its nearly impossible.

@Moosh. Saw your rating. Would you care to elaborate on how you think LoH is inferior to AQ? I am always happy to hear criticism so long as its properly informed and accurate (not based on "100 deaths" or viewing my video or screenshots or having played only 1 fortress and part of the 2nd). See my responses to Gleeok and Yowza... So please, tell me the truth and don't hold back and don't forget to mention how far you've gotten into my quest.

Edited by James24, 10 May 2012 - 03:51 AM.

[MasterPlayer2342]

A challenge eh me want challenge now!

[James24]

Master Player, please do not play my quest unless you've completed Armageddon Quest. Clearly, I can't stop people downloading and playing my quest or determine whether or not they meet the prerequisites. So, if you choose to ignore my request, please don't retaliate if you lose too many times and don't get anywhere. You were warned that this is a brutally difficult quest.

On the other hand, if you are a truly top notch challenge quest player, please feel free to challenge - I welcome you.

[Gleeok]

Seriously? James, you do know that saying things like "you cannot play my quest unless you've completed Armageddon Quest" on the internet is like saying "By clicking here you verify that you are 18 years of age or over", right?

[Moosh]

Master Player, please do not play my quest unless you've completed Armageddon Quest. Clearly, I can't stop people downloading and playing my quest or determine whether or not they meet the prerequisites. So, if you choose to ignore my request, please don't retaliate if you lose too many times and don't get anywhere. You were warned that this is a brutally difficult quest.

On the other hand, if you are a truly top notch challenge quest player, please feel free to challenge - I welcome you.

Oh c'mon! Accepting criticism and learning from your past mistakes is a challenge in itself. It takes some serious balls to accept that your quest is less than perfect and if there's anyone I'd expect to have balls, it's you. You don't seem like the kind of person to step down when offered a challenge.

In other news, I'm currently preparing a review of this quest. Considering how random I am, I have no idea when it'll go up.

[James24]

Moosh, I am learning from my mistakes. My mistake was to let this quest become public. I thought most players could try something different and handle loss, but from first hand experience, they clearly can't. I think its because it goes against accepted Zelda culture that the player always wins. Now there's a radical shift in thinking that the player can actually lose to a quest and people can't accept that. When I release Insanity's End, I will private message the players who I think are mature enough to handle loss and send it privately to them but I will never put it on a public database. Most players are not ready to play at this level of excellence - that's the truth. Better they stay out of it and stick with their easy quests which have lots of eye-candy and simple puzzles. Makes them happy and so I'm happy for them. Each to their own I say.

You can't see things from my first-hand experience otherwise you'd change your mind in a heartbeat. I've had bad ratings, innuendos, unjustified, unwarranted, untrue, inaccurate and baseless criticism, adhominem attacks on me which I've kindly ignored and not reported. All of these are from players who haven't even got past the first two levels which, because of the high difficulty, leads me to conclude that what they are saying is based on a "rage quit". In fact, anyone who's completed the quest has never said any of the above - see the ratings or the comments in this thread. Therefore, my conclusion to all this evidence is that players can't handle loss. Am I wrong in reaching that conclusion?

Moosh, I also hope that you haven't rated the quest based on what I've said in the forums. I also hope that your rating isn't politically motivated in order to protect your alliances with Shane and Dragonite. So please, comment and criticize my quest all you wish - I welcome it. But if anything is untrue, inaccurate or baseless, I will discredit it - and possibly the reviewer as well.