180 replies to this topic

[Fabbrizio]

Still, techinically, modern Christianity is a get-away-with-it-religion.

It is, for sure. The attitude towards Lent somewhat bothers me in that respect. It's like "NO MEAT, BUT FISH IS OKAY!" I'm sure God LOVES that people exploit loopholes.

Edited by PowerGauntlets, 05 August 2011 - 05:30 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

Time to change the topic, guys. Keep it out of here, or to the Debate Forum. Lotsa luck staying civil on a topic like this in a place like right here.

[Sheik]

Time to change the topic, guys. Keep it out of here, or to the Debate Forum. Lotsa luck staying civil on a topic like this in a place like right here.

Actually, I think that people are generally more senstive with touchy topics because they make them realize that they don't actually want to insult people by questioning their integrety way to much. That be off-topic again. o_o

[ShadowTiger]

Well, if the topic's purpose was to present a poll, and define peoples' roles in their beliefs in terms of the categories of the poll, then a finer discussion within a single facet of one possible aspect of it is pretty much irrelevant to the original poster's intention for the topic. They're not defining whether it's even a religion or not, but scrutinizing aspects of it within what has already been defined as a religion.

Just go to the Debate Forum if you want to keep talking about it. It is interesting. It's just that it's not for here, right now, is all.

[Cukeman]

Decided to vote non-religious, but theistic.
Because the way I see it, God just wants you to do good, and not to do bad,
and you don't need to step foot in a church to accomplish that.

Edited by Cukeman, 05 August 2011 - 10:09 PM.

[Fabbrizio]

Because the way I see it, God just wants you to do good, and not to do bad, and you don't need to step foot in a church to accomplish that.

THIS. So much.

Seriously, you can make up whatever you want about what God wants you to do, but in the end, if you live your life without stepping on too many toes, there won't be much left to be desired from you when you leave this world.

[Sheik]

THIS. So much.

Seriously, you can make up whatever you want about what God wants you to do, but in the end, if you live your life without stepping on too many toes, there won't be much left to be desired from you when you leave this world.

How do you come to this conclusion? Becuase it's more "humane" or more comfortable? The bible lists quite some requitements if you want to step foot in heaven. "Just" being "a good person" (what ever that might be) is apperently not enough. For example, you also have to be baptized. So even if you're Ghandi (here as a metaphor for a good person, nothing more) himself you won't set a foot behind the pearly gates if you aren't baptized. That's what the bible says, I can't help it.

Edited by Sheik91, 07 August 2011 - 06:20 AM.

[Fabbrizio]

How do you come to this conclusion? Becuase it's more "humane" or more comfortable? The bible lists quite some requitements if you want to step foot in heaven. "Just" being "a good person" (what ever that might be) is apperently not enough. For example, you also have to be baptized. So even if you're Ghandi (here as a metaphor for a good person, nothing more) himself you won't set a foot behind the pearly gates if you aren't baptized. That's what the bible says, I can't help it.

But my argument is just in support of theism, not religion. I don't want to conform to Christianity, because logically, the odds are against any of those teachings ACTUALLY coming from God. With so many religions out there, all with their own catechisms and all claiming to be 'the truth' no religion really has any more claim to their position than any other, so from my perspective, since they can't all be true, the safest bet is that they're all false. But that doesn't mean there's no God, so I simply try to live a moral life. My #1 objective is, has been, and always will be to avoid hurting people, at all costs.

Edited by PowerGauntlets, 07 August 2011 - 09:57 AM.

[Titanium Justice]

For example, you also have to be baptized.

Again, with the fallacies. Have you ever read the Bible?

To be literally baptized (in water) is in fact not a requirement for salvation. Did the repentant thief on the cross ever get baptized? No. Yet he's in paradise according to Jesus.

The necessary baptism Jesus mentions is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, an experience that all true believers have experienced upon believing in Christ (where they receive and are filled with the Holy Spirit). To be literally baptized is an outward expression of what God has done in you, and is usually done to express one's turning away from sin.

Edited by HeavyTitanium, 07 August 2011 - 10:14 AM.

[Cukeman]

What I don't care for is Christianity being seen as 'one religion' the variations from place to place
are so extreme it's hardly the same belief sets at all in some cases.

[Fabbrizio]

What I don't care for is Christianity being seen as 'one religion' the variations from place to place are so extreme it's hardly the same belief sets at all in some cases.

Well then refer to Catholicism, Lutheranism, Mormonism, Evangelicalism, whatever. Even if you think of them as separate religions, that doesn't change the fact that they ARE religions, and in any argument they can and should be treated as such.

Edited by PowerGauntlets, 07 August 2011 - 01:55 PM.

[Sheik]

But my argument is just in support of theism, not religion. I don't want to conform to Christianity, because logically, the odds are against any of those teachings ACTUALLY coming from God. With so many religions out there, all with their own catechisms and all claiming to be 'the truth' no religion really has any more claim to their position than any other, so from my perspective, since they can't all be true, the safest bet is that they're all false. But that doesn't mean there's no God, so I simply try to live a moral life. My #1 objective is, has been, and always will be to avoid hurting people, at all costs.

How can you seperate the christian God and the Bible? Without the Bible, you wouldn't even know about the idea that there's a christian god.

Again, with the fallacies. Have you ever read the Bible?

To be literally baptized (in water) is in fact not a requirement for salvation. Did the repentant thief on the cross ever get baptized? No. Yet he's in paradise according to Jesus.

The necessary baptism Jesus mentions is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, an experience that all true believers have experienced upon believing in Christ (where they receive and are filled with the Holy Spirit). To be literally baptized is an outward expression of what God has done in you, and is usually done to express one's turning away from sin.

Did I mention the word "water" anywhere in my post?

On your initial question: I've literally grown up with (and out of) it.

Edited by Sheik91, 07 August 2011 - 02:19 PM.

[trudatman]

no, but, to maintain the suspension of disbelief, they have to be practiced in diversion toward the magical that can't be disputed, so expect more of it.

[Fabbrizio]

How can you seperate the christian God and the Bible? Without the Bible, you wouldn't even know about the idea that there's a christian god.

I'm separating the two because the bible is a compilation - it contains content which is claimed to be "The Word of God" but also contains the stories of people who sought to find God, and those who had interactions with Jesus (I think this would be an excellent time to cite Job). In other words, much of the bible is not, in fact, the word of God, but a chronicle of events as described by those who witnessed them.

TL;DR, The bible describes God, yes, but not everything in the bible is the word of God, and that is why I separate them. I'm not completely discarding the ideas of the bible, I'm just taking them with a grain of salt.

EDIT: Sorry, my thoughts are a bit scattered, I realize now that I misinterpreted what you were asking. Anyway, I'm separating God from the Bible because of the fact that the bible was basically 4kids-dubbed by the 9th century Europeans who took out any verses which contradicted the teachings they wanted to promote. This mostly involved removing anything which referred to Jesus as anything other than the son of God, but they made several other changes if I recall. So I find that while the idea of the Christian God is still there, his 'teachings' that the bible describes could very well be just a product of the ideals of the times.

Edited by PowerGauntlets, 07 August 2011 - 02:37 PM.

[Cukeman]

How can you seperate the christian God and the Bible? Without the Bible, you wouldn't even know about the idea that there's a christian god.

I don't separate the christian God from the Bible, just from the church.