42 replies to this topic

[trudatman]

then simplify it to portals or certain places where it works or something.

[Naru]

I really dislike the idea of random warps (in OoA and alttp), hidden portals for the few secret places should work just fine.

[LikeLike on fire]

you want to make it look like a demake? a good demake, or a demake to look like a bootleg?

[Old-Skool]

Hell yes, but I'd need to see it happen first. 

It's not that I think it is technically impossible, just that the amount of work is a tall order. Imagine me stepping up and trying to do it!! I can barely remember "oh yeah Magic and Fantasy Level 7 I work on still must do"

That said, it amazes me how multiple people can get together to work on one quest. How do they do that? I'd get so much done working with other people probably but then I'd get anxiety issues and be like "I'm going to get booted from the team for being the weakest Link" even though I'd probably do pretty good. I guess. ...who am I kidding I should consider this. 

I think this could be done, especially if done in classic and simplified. especially as something of a team effort. No Scripting.

[Anthus]

[...]

Edit: Also, you could probably just disable the A and B buttons if you're in the dark world and don't have the pearl. Probably a lot simpler

 

That is what I'd probably do. Technically I can live without his sprites changing.

 

You know, two years ago, I made a Z3 mirror script for Obderhode, that is rather faithful to the Z3 system, and is easy to use. I'm unsure if your decision to strip it from the quest is at all based on needing usable code, or a personal decision. You may use it, if you wish.

I could also give you a moon pearl script in under fifteen minutes. Make Link invisible, draw a buny sprite; or use a ring LTM to change his sprite, and disable his weapon inputs, unless he has a given item on specific DMaps.

 

How is it set up exactly? Do you plug in the numbers for (d)maps it is able to work on, and then set it to go to that position on that screen in another d-map? What happens if Link is teleported to a solid tile? Would it bounce him back to the darkworld? Are there any known issues? I wouldn't be opposed to looking at a magic mirror script, but depending on its complexity, and my laziness, I can't promise it will be included. 

 

yes, but you won't finish it.

 

tru dat, man.

 

I think the problem with these kinds of games, and the reason they're rarely completed comes down to one simple thing: Making it worth playing over the original. "De-makes" of games like OoT, SS, MM, TP, and WW could theoretically work well, because the perspective and combat systems are completely different (but they'd probably work better on a LttP-based engine, because of the scrolling style), so changes in items, layout and puzzles work well; but the Z1 combat system is very similar to the other 2D titles. This causes a problem, because the primary engine and gameplay is the primary focus of the Zelda series, not the story. And I say this, because the bigwigs at Nintendo specifically stated that the reason they kept the timeline secret, even from their own developers, was so that the developers wouldn't waste time worrying about how the story fits,when the gameplay is the important aspect, so not using enough scripts and going *too* old school can really detract from the overall game. Rather than being a fun, alternate version, they become boring, stripped-down versions. If you *really* wanted to make an ALttP remake stripped down for ZC use, I'd recommend making your own version of Hyrule and just reusing the basic plot, changing minor details, here and there. Like how Ocarina of Time is basically a retelling of the ALttP plot. 

 

This is true. It is hard to make someone want to play something if it is not as good as its source material, but that is why I as thinking of having certain changes, and things that make it more ZC friendly. As it stands, portions of the world map will need to be redesigned so they don't look totally awkward with ZCs screen scrolling. And I agree about the story not being as important, and AlttP, and OoT are essentially the same story, and have a lot of core similarities. This quest would aim to capture the spirit of the original, without being a screen for screen, line for line remake, which would be impossible for me to finish anyway, if it was that big.

 

then simplify it to portals or certain places where it works or something.

 

That is what I am currently counting on doing. I think it could work. Certain items that you obtain throughout the quest would make certain portals accessible as you go on your way. I was also thinking, that for the DW, it might be more like ALBW's in the sense that areas are mostly secluded from each other, till late game, and must be entered from certain spots in the LW. Even AlttP did this to an extent with the swamp/ dessert, and Death Mountain. This would extend the reason to explore the light world beyond the first few dungeons.

 

I really dislike the idea of random warps (in OoA and alttp), hidden portals for the few secret places should work just fine.

 

What do you mean by random warps? 

 

you want to make it look like a demake? a good demake, or a demake to look like a bootleg?

 

I attempted, roughly, to create a NES demake using the tiles from that pirated NES ALttP remake, but I lost motivation real quick cause it was complicated, and once the novelty wore off, it was a jumbled mess of horrid graphics. That project turned into the now defunct Link's Hangover. This iteration would use Classic, and be recognizable, but not a complete copy.

 

Hell yes, but I'd need to see it happen first. 

It's not that I think it is technically impossible, just that the amount of work is a tall order. Imagine me stepping up and trying to do it!! I can barely remember "oh yeah Magic and Fantasy Level 7 I work on still must do"

That said, it amazes me how multiple people can get together to work on one quest. How do they do that? I'd get so much done working with other people probably but then I'd get anxiety issues and be like "I'm going to get booted from the team for being the weakest Link" even though I'd probably do pretty good. I guess. ...who am I kidding I should consider this. 

I think this could be done, especially if done in classic and simplified. especially as something of a team effort. No Scripting.

 

The scope of the project is also tied to how complicated you want to make it. That's why i agree that for a game as big as this, certain concessions need to be made to make it realistically finish-able by one (or a few) people. I don't like the idea of completely not using scripts, cause there are a few very simple ones that I already know how to use that would make it feel a little more modern. I honestly think that the NPC signpost is a must for a project like this, especially if other key features are removed. I agree 100% with the other stuff though

 

 

Thanks for the replies, guys

[Naru]

random might be the wrong word, in ZC it would be a direct warp. I mean that you can warp everywhere, resulting "randomly" in objects at times. These failed warps and the ugly effect remaining to warp back are two things I dislike to the point I would prefer only actual portals.

[Anthus]

Oh, I see now. Yeah, direct warps can be janky, at times. Plus it might be really hard or at least really time consuming to test the walls and make sure they are unbreakable. Portals would be the way to go.

And if I did use advanced scripts, this quest would have to be released in an episodic format

[Lüt]

changed slightly cause of reasons.

I fully support this.

[Matthew Bluefox]

I voted for a big yes. Meow!

[Anthus]

Note: This post contains massive images, but they are in spoiler tags. Beware 

 

Here's some ideas I had in mind for various dungeons, and making them a bit different, and hopefully interesting. Nothing is final, these are just ideas. What do you guys think?

 

Hyrule Castle/ Sewers/ Sanctuary:

This area will be a lot shorter. It is pretty lengthy in ALttP, and serves to get players re-acquainted with top-down Zelda dungeon crawling. Frankly, I don't think a ZC quest needs such a long tutorial section. I think less is more in this case, cause when you return later, I have more in mind than just having a straight up gauntlet style climb to Agahnim. The second visit to Hyrule Castle will function more like a real dungeon than in ALttP, but I don't have a ton of unique ideas yet. It may be condensed if I can't think of anything worthwhile to put here.

 

Big key won't be required to open the dungeon treasure chest. That was a pretty important mechanic in ALttP's design, as you often times knew where the item was, but couldn't get it til later.

 

Eastern Palace:

Seeing as this is the first real dungeon, I plan on trying to keep it's shape and flow, but there will be some changes. It will be more like "ruins", instead a palace, and have more of a focus on using the Bow, which is found inside. I have some ideas for target-based puzzles, which could be fun.

 

Desert Palace:

This dungeon will be inside a giant cake. 'nuff said. ... Actually, I have an idea involving making some "time shift stones". Basically Link would wander through the dessert part of this temple, as normal, encountering leevers, and maybe ghosted beamos'. You can only go so far in the dessert palace though, since there are some locked doors, but no keys. Good thing Link finds the Bracelet/ gloves, and can shove the time shift stones which allow him to go even further in the past (which will be lush, and tropical e.i. not a dessert). You will also be able to go around some of the outside in the past. You gotta find the keys, and go back.

 

Tower of Hera:

This is probably my least favorite dungeon in the game. Dunno why really, it's pretty straightforward. This place has a lot of floors. These will probably be reduced, and I am thinking about having some ALBW "outside" sections, but they might be side scrolling, and focus more on platforming. This will depend on how fun these areas actually are since we all know platforming in ZC can be awkward at times.. Will you be able to get trolled by the boss, and knocked way down? Probably.

 

Dark Palace:

Dunno yet. I'm thinking hammer puzzles, involving combo cycling, and not using darkness as a design element. Sounds great, right? This would be another dungeon that attempts to retain it's shape, and flow. I always thought this was one of the harder dungeons in the game as a kid, and it is certainly one of the largest, and it is maze like.

 

Swamp Palace:

I'm thinking of splitting this dungeon between the two worlds. In the original, Link had to drain the water in the shrine in the light world, to advance into the dungeon in the darkworld. This is still in pretty early planning phases, and nothing is too final yet. There will be some puzzles that require quick use of the hookshot. I had a blast making these types of puzzles in Link's Day Off. You would need the flippers here too, so~

 

Inside a Giant Whale, for no reason:

Instead of having to waste 500 rupees, I'm thinking of having a small mini dungeon where you help King Zora out, and get rewarded with the flippers. I made some tiles for this a while ago, but never used them. People will probably whine about the perspective, and how they look with the rest of Classic, but whatever. (These are animated, too, btw)

Spoiler

 

Skull Woods:

Will probably be pretty much the same shit, with multiple entrances, and whatnot. Fire/ undead theme too. Maybe some irritating magic enemies. The difficulty will ramp up a bit here not unlike in the original.

 

Thieves Hideout:

Dunno yet, really.

 

Ice Palace:

I want to do a similar time stone concept here, where you go into the future instead, and the icey area is all firey for some reason. This is mostly to compensate for the lack of ice in ZC.

 

Misery Mire:

Long, grueling, and confusing. Probably. Dead ends, and windrobes? Nah, I'm not that mean.

 

Turtle Rock:

Might make this the dedicated fire dungeon if I don't use that idea for the ice palace. Who knows if I'll even get this far

 

Ganon's Tower:

Basically, you will have to use every item, and solve a variety of puzzles. This will be kind of like OoT/ TWW's tower with different areas for each dungeon theme. 

 

----------------------------------

 

About the overworld. I have decided against using a straight up 16x16 screen grid. This will make some areas feel really empty in ZC. So, what I did was divide up the world map in ALttP (so far, only the light world). Take if you will, this example, of what I drew before, using a screen for screen approach:

 

Spoiler

 

That was based off of this grid I made, which translates the screens. Yellow is the screens, and the red line is the separation of the 8x16 ZC maps. Some areas look really, really off this way. Also, worth noting, AlttP uses three more tiles of height on each screen:

 

Spoiler

 

It looks cool, as a map, but screen by screen, it is empty in some areas.

 

So, by dividing up the AlttP map(s) I can make them more interesting, less constricted, and accommodate changes. Here's a tentative division of the areas in ALttP's lightworld:

 

Huge image:

Spoiler

 

 

EDIT 10^6 x 1.24: Who's on board for putting Zelda in a bottle when you meet her in the castle dungeon instead of having her follow you? Long story short, I'm not using a NPC follow script, so this is gonna happen via dialogue.

[DragonDePlatino]

Even though I love NES demakes, I don't think you should spend your time demaking ALttP. The end product would be something like the Final Fantasy VII demake: An objectively inferior version of an existing game. Pirate games are always interesting, but the amount of time spent making this would not justify the mild curiosity you'd produce. I think your time would be better spent on original projects.

 

With that being said, I think a similar idea could make for a fun quest. Right now, I'm throwing around the idea for my own "NES Zelda 3". I'm not remaking any existing Zelda game, but addressing an alternate path Nintendo could've taken: What if Nintendo released a third Zelda game for the NES? The game would probably be the Zelda equivalent of SMB3. Better presentation, more content, more storyline, but the same NES restrictions and a lack of things like the Master Sword/Dark World/Flippers etc. There's a million different ways you could interpret this idea so you could try it out yourself.

Edited by DragonDePlatino, 26 April 2016 - 08:53 PM.

[Anthus]

Even though I love NES demakes, I don't think you should spend your time demaking ALttP. The end product would be something like the Final Fantasy VII demake: An objectively inferior version of an existing game. Pirate games are always interesting, but the amount of time spent making this would not justify the mild curiosity you'd produce. I think your time would be better spent on original projects.

 

With that being said, I think a similar idea could make for a fun quest. Right now, I'm throwing around the idea for my own "NES Zelda 3". I'm not remaking any existing Zelda game, but addressing an alternate path Nintendo could've taken: What if Nintendo released a third Zelda game for the NES? The game would probably be the Zelda equivalent of SMB3. Better presentation, more content, more storyline, but the same NES restrictions and a lack of things like the Master Sword/Dark World/Flippers etc. There's a million different ways you could interpret this idea so you could try it out instead.

 

This is a good point. I'm changing the topic title to reflect this. I want to move away from the Link to the Past Demake theme, and focus more on making something that uses ALttP as a base, but approaches it as if it was the third entry on the NES. Curiosity and novelty could wear off, leaving this quest unfinished, or boring.

 

Using the setting, and structure though, could make for a great ZC game.

 

EDIT: Here is an example of how areas might be translated:

 

 

I apologize for the huge images, and questionable.. ahem, quality of this sketch

[Anthus]

After a long time thinking about it, I have decided to begin this project officially, or at least, start drawing some screens.

 

I am going to be using Moosh's Instrumentality set, instead of the unreleased custom set I made a few years ago. The main reason is, I really like the new palettes in Moosh's set, and I can still add in my custom tiles, and FFA/3 shit from my other set quite easily (Rydia, and Joe123 made the FF3/ FFA sets respectively). This will make for the ultimate 'unholy fusion of Classic and a bunch of others'! Instrumentality also has a lot of other tiles that I would have liked to add on my own, namely the GB tiles, which, ask me if I give a fuck about clashing. Cause I don't #yolo #blind #whocaresaboutoutlines

 

This quest is planned to be based on the formula of AlttP, but the world will be built differently, and a lot of changes will be made. I am not using the AlttP map I made before either. If anyone wants to look at it on a screen by screen basis, you can download it here and see why it is awkward. BTW, do whatever you want with that quest. Finish it if you want, good luck

 

I might make a QPF for this, but I might also wait and see if I really make it past the first few screens before doing all that. This thread should suffice for now. 

[Anthus]

I've been thinking about items. Since this will be using the 'flow' of AlttP, you will encounter a lot of the same items, and item-related blockades. A lot of these will function very differently though.

• Candle/ Lamp. Pretty standard. Nerfed power, can use many times on a screen.
• You will not find the boomerang early in this game, since it makes a lot of stuff pretty easy.
• Bombs, and Arrows, pretty standard fare here too. The Bow/ Arrow is in the first dungeon. Yes there are quivers, and bomb ammo, I'm not going full Stamina bar. You never go full stamina bar
• Instead of getting Pegasus boots after the first dungeon, you get the book. Not the magic book, but a dummy item book that triggers certain NPCs to say certain things, and also translates Hylian texts via string codes. Oh, the beauty (and pain) of string control codes. The small OW area with the library is going to be re-purposed, or removed entirely.
• You are still given the tip to check out Lake Hylia. Instead of finding the really OP ice rod here, you will instead find the Shortshot. The item is just what you might expect: A short hookshot. One that only travels five tiles, short. A Longshot will be obtained later. Haven't decided if I want it to be required before you get the regular hookshot, or at all.
• Using the book somewhere in the dessert lets Link get The Lens of truth. Hear me out on this one, this particular story related item is only usable in the dessert for a puzzle. That is until later in the game, when a new one is obtained which can be used anywhere, and will help Link find completely hidden portals (but not all portals will be hidden like this).
• You will find the first bracelet in the second dungeon which is required to scale Death Mountain, and enter the first DW portals.
• In the third dungeon, Link would normally have found the moon pearl, blah blah blah. So, this is where the first of the two Rods are introduced. Link obtains the Moon Rod here. This acts as a regular magic wand, and is used for puzzles, and it also removes the dummy item that steadily drains Link's HP in the darkworld. There are even certain stones in the lightworld that may turn into portals into the darkworld.. A pretty neat tool IMO, since in the original, there was no use in the dungeon for the item you found there.
• Link will obtain the Master Sword. I should explain how I want to set up swords. The first sword (wooden in ZC, white in LttP) will stab, and not shoot sword beams. The Master sword will slash, and shoot half power sword beams. I'm thinking of having the Golden sword always shoot sword beams, and the tempered sword also give you the peril scroll. This is subject to change though, cause I like slashing. I think it would make the player feel like they really became more powerful with this legendary sword though, if it had such a dramatic improvement over the first sword.
• In Level 1, you will find the Hammer. This can take you further in the DW, and open up the second tier of portals while also letting you get to Level 2.
• You will find the Longshot in Level 2 (goes across the entire screen). This can be used for the third tier of portals, and to access the third dungeon.
• Level 3 holds the Sun Rod. This is another wand, but this one uses the book to make fire. This is used for puzzles, and can make certain enemies really easy to kill. I haven't fully figured out how to have two different wands, and have only one use the magic book. This seem like it would be easy to do though with some small script. If anyone has any ideas, lemme know. Sun Rod also grants access to the fourth tier of portals (from the DW only; sun and moon gimmick),
• Level 4, new bracelet, can move heavy rocks, and open the fifth, and final tier of portals, and access to Levels 5, 6, and 7, which can be done in any order.
• Where the Blue Male you ask? It will be obtainable before Level 5. ALttP makes you wait for 3/4 of the game before giving it to you, only to get the red male three dungeons later. I never liked that. Level Fives item is undecided (but may be the lens), but those would make more sense in Level 6. Level 7 is still the mirror shield. I kind of want to throw in a "star Rod" which is just basically a really OP wand that can pass through multiple enemies, and stun them, but I doubt it

That's all I have for now. This is just a quick synopsis, and stuff may change. Other items are planned, but I'm not mentioning them here cause they are tentative, and might be moved around, with some of these as well. I'm thinking more about main core items at this stage.

Thanks for reading.

[grayswandir]

I think I would have liked the original plan better, with an ice rod and such. Still, this sounds very well planned out, and I'm looking forward to seeing the result.

 

Giving/Taking away the book based on what item you have selected sounds pretty doable, and easy to just throw into an existing quest without messing with the script too much.