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Abandonment Update


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#1 Thunderfist

Thunderfist

    Recipient of Ways

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 03:08 PM

This project is now abandoned.
Because of how some in this community treat each other.

TLDR:
I made Zquest quest development my primary form of recreation for almost two years, spending many hours every day learning the system and making my game. When I finally released my project beta,

I was attacked in my Expo submission comments,
attacked by others for daring to defend myself,
They started swearing at me with apparent impunity,
my Expo submission became a place for randos to troll me and talk crap,
I tried to defend myself and my project,
I gave up on my Expo submission,
I begged those involved to leave me alone,
I requested the comments be locked or submission deleted just to make the harassment stop,
I started swearing back,
Even my frustration at the non-stop attacks was mocked as irrational childishness,
I tried to delete the post myself and ended up editing out all the content,
I updated the project to an abandoned status,
Finally the comments on my submission were locked,
One of the trolls then started private messaging me to further harass me with a one line apology followed by paragraphs of further insults,
The troll then began again in the comments for my update explaining I'm abandoning my quest and why,
And right at the same time he was attacking me in the update comments for my retirement notice I was banned for a day for eventually breaking down and using profanity in my defense even as my attackers continued to talk crap on me, so here I was being yet personally attacked and I finally gave up on even keeping an open account here and finally just requested the staff delete my account since for some stupid reason you can't do when banned. I was ignored and others were allowed to continue trashing me without my even being able to defend myself. Further, now that my ban is finished, I've come back to find that my Expo submission and update comments where I was attacked are still there be locked from my view. My own comments are locked on my project's page, on the update where I'm being attacked and now can't even see what's being said about my. On my page. In my comments. About me. On the page where I'm abandoning my project due to harassment from multiple members of this community.

Details:

Some dude gave positive and negative feedback, constructive criticism, cool. But then my guesses at Expo submission header and category formats were mocked.
This person told everyone that nobody but me would like my project very much.
I, who actively fight against political propaganda, was wrongly accused by this person of using my game to push political propaganda which is a personal attack on multiple fronts not the least of which being basic ethical principles.
I was being attacked and accused unjustly on my Expo submission, the culmination of my intense and lengthy efforts on this project, so I defended myself.
The closest thing I can think of to propaganda in my game is a level where Captain America and Wolverine fight Nazis together in WW2 just like in the stories, so I also brought up the relevant likelihood of my accuser being a Neo-Nazi only upset that I included Nazis as enemies. He swore at me, I swore back, that profanity and my relevant reference to Neo-Nazis were censored, I got warned by staff to be a better victim, and that was about the end of it. Or so I thought.

I went back to review my Expo comments and found the dude came back, apologized but in the very same sentence negated the apology saying he stood by his words, and went right back to attacking me. Only, other people were now jumping in because I didn't respond with the exact appropriate amount of teeth bared for their liking, and demanded I explain basic ethics to them while they berated me endlessly, called me at once either a liar or braggart for being honest about myself when relevant, told me that I have to put up with rude behavior from them because mean people exist on the internet anyway as if I have no choice about where I spend my time, told me I have no business developing anything if I'm not willing to take abuse when I'm not being paid, and they continued harassing me in this way until all my hard work and excitement turned to tears and anger and I just lost it. And I'm not sorry. I could have been a 10 year old whose was being broken by these jerks. As it happens I do have PTSD and a dying family member, but because of that I doubt myself extra hard at every moment and really analyze things carefully. Not that I should have to give my medical history to schoolyard bullies to get them to stop. Bulllies continue until you push back hard. They'd been swearing at me for a while without consequence so I eventually ended up swearing myself. I yelled repeatedly for them to leave me alone. They mocked even my desperate cries for them to stop. And then they had the audacity to say my prior summary of what happened painted the whole community in an unduly bad light. But if they didn't want to give a bad impression of the PureZC community, they didn't have to do what they did. In the emailed preview of a new comment on my prior Abandonment update, I saw more false accusations being spread about me, saying I claimed a ZC developer was ignorant on ZC and that I know more than him. These are outright lies, I called him ethically ignorant.

What sucks most about this is that for a minute I really thought I was with like people who would appreciate my efforts, those of a technical and chill nature. You can't get hurt unless you care, and for a time I actually valued the words of the members of this community. Some of those involved have tried to apologize, but it's always with a backhand attached to it. Some of those have tried to ignore the issue and kindly reply to other topics of mine. I appreciate the efforts, of course, and it's a shame things are how they are because I generally love those adamant about what they perceive as injustice and think I could have really had great friendships with these people. Unfortunately, the risk/reward ratio on my ZQuest efforts have become not worth it, it's not worth the stress and toll on me to continue with any sort of active presence here in this community. My account and Expo submission were kept and locked from me just so my attackers could continue badmouthing me basically in my face and barely-whispered behind a hand. For posterity I just wanted to set the record straight, defend myself against this new accusation, maintain that I have a problem with jerks and not constructive criticism, maintain that others' inability to see a point doesn't negate its existence, and that echo chambers are why small towns have a problem being behind the times. If I'm showcasing a major project and security isn't provided, I'm taking care of it myself with strong but not cruel precedents. I shouldn't be censored for defending myself in a like manner to that in which I'm attacked, and if I can't defend myself someone else had better be doing it for me or I'm going to stop abiding by rules of decency my attackers aren't abiding by.

It's insulting to act like someone leaving an online community after being treated in such a manner is such a shock. Whomever wants can go ahead and badmouth me now and mock my lack of patience for jerks. I just want the record straight on what happened and why. Completing this massive beta was a really big accomplishment for me, and it took a lot for me to want to completely destroy the showcase for everything I'd worked toward. It took even more than that to want to abandon my project altogether. It took more than that to want to delete my account. And now I'm forced to defend my honor to an empty room for posterity despite everything else for everyone to insult and jeer at once more. So be it. I know I did the best I could to deal with a difficult situation. For bullies the interaction is always a sport, and to their victims a desperate defense.

I don't need to be a better victim. I will develop whatever the Hell I feel like for exactly as long as I feel like. I will defend myself to whatever degree I feel I need to, and I have no apologies when I have neither made any intentional ethical transgression nor error in judgment. I look at both sides clearly before responding in such situations as these, but nobody seems to have bothered stepping into my shoes.

When you treat people like crap on the internet, it's not a faceless NPC that takes damage, and they aren't required to have the same emotions or way of expressing maturity you do at any given moment. People on the internet are still real people of all types at all overlapping stages of growth or health or education. But malicious tone rings clear and distinct from righteous outrage during self-defense.

Blocking people from responding to or even reading attacks due or not on their own page is absolute horsecrap and you know it. And that's the final straw. No one day forced cooling off period is going to undue what I've experienced. I was so upset at this my gf and I had to cancel our weekend plans. A backhanded apology and continuing demands I be a better victim isn't going to take away the five hour migraine from being so upset. Letting others attack me on my page without ability to defend myself is outrageous to a degree not appreciable without excessive profanity and an educational rant on the nature of fascism's relationship to unjust censorship.

But at this point, I'm just DONE. NOTHING I've said in my defenses has changed. My outrage at the injustices I've seen here is socially obligatory and should be expected. Everyone I've yelled at has deserved it. We've said our piece and while it is possible we could move on graciously I have NO faith anything of the sort will occur. I'm not going to spend another 2 years on a project just to have everything torn to ribbons for sport. In not going to demean myself by acting like the hand of karma and turning the offenders' project comments into cesspools of insults and drama. I'm not going to be forced to stand here in a situation like this without defending myself. I'm not going to let myself be silenced as one final injustice.

I used to wonder why there weren't thousands of people making their own games like this. Now I wonder how there are so many of you still talking to each other, and there were only like 15 Expo submissions for reference.

I appreciate the kindness from those of you who have shown it, but I'm not dealing with this crap any more. I feel like one of the greatest joys of my life was stolen from me. Would you ever come back after that? Would you even entertain the idea of one day continuing? Probably not. You can go back to slandering and insulting me now.

Goodbye.
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#2 Migokalle

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 03:31 PM

Dude. What they said wasn't that bad.  :shrug:


Edited by Migokalle, 17 November 2019 - 03:31 PM.

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#3 Shane

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 03:38 PM

If you're going to bastardize my honest apology then fine, leave. There's clearly no getting through to you. Calling people Nazis is completely irrational, there's simply no debating it.

 

As I said in DM, sucks your project is being abandoned. I thought it had some neat ideas, but it clearly needed some work, and we knew it was in beta, we just wanted to help you make a better final product.


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#4 Aevin

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    Lucas, the Reluctant

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 03:41 PM

No, that's enough of this. If you have any interest in participating in the community, drop this and move on. In the mean time, the probation will keep you quiet for at least a week.

 

Topic locked ... though Yoshi snuck one in afterwards.


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#5 Yoshi

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 03:41 PM

It's unfortunate that you feel the need to leave the community over this as your quest was quite clearly a passion project of yours that meant a lot to you.

 

I genuinely don't think anyone was trying to insult you with anything they said, but chances are my saying this will fall on deaf ears. If it was a genuine personal attack it likely would have been dealt with.

 

If you ever decide to come back we'd be willing to have you, hopefully after you've gotten a bit better at handling criticism and understanding peoples intentions. It'd be a shame to just throw all of your work away over this.


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