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Map of the Month 85

Demonlink

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Poll: Map of the Month 85 (36 member(s) have cast votes)

Which map would you like to be trapped in? (Vote for the best map)

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#16 Naru

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 08:44 PM

I general don't argue with you here and agree with most what you said but let me point three things out.

 

#1 Just giving an opinion isn't the same like critism. (I don't want to argue about the definition of words, I am bad at wording and not good with english, read between the lines). My point here is that I did not aim to give a detailed and professional review of your map, I just gave away my thoughts. And I am fine if others disagree. Or if others with better insight enlighten me, pointing out the flaws in my thought. Also, it isn't always needed to give the reasons for your thoughts. That way others actually have to think for themself. You can always ask if you want, but don't you think it is more fun to look first for yourself? Of course, it doesn't help you personally in this case since it is about your map, but I did give my opninion to everyone here, not just to you. I don't disagree that my comment is not very helpful towards you in regards of how to improve, but you are not the only person here. Also, keep in mind that not everyone can reason their opinion. Like you are really talented with colors. You have an eye for it. I am not. I can look at a picture and might think that I don't like the colors on it, but neither do I know why nor am I sure if there isn't another problem and I misjudged the colors to be the problem.

 

#2 You are a great person. With a lot of talent. Have more confidence in youself. You shouldn't need to feel like that only because of minor things others said. You state that it is destructive and not helpful. That is actually nonsense. It is neither brutal nor insulting, if it feels really destructive to read this than that is just you who can't handle it. Again, have more confidence in yourself. Many people here look up to you, such minor words shouldn't even bother you at all. And it helps me. Giving your opinion is not only stating onesided your knowledge, your opinion can change and form itself through talking about others with it. I don't have many people to talk to. I am often confused about things. Like I said, you don't always can reason your opinion. Just talking to others helps a lot.

 

#3 Being unfinished or not matters a lot. I don't know if quality is actually a fitting word here, but normally if you are near to finish a dungeon (or similiar things) the things either work out like planned or they don't. If they don't you have to overcome a hurdle that can be really frustrating. So far I couldn't overcome this hurdle even once. If I look at Joelmacools map shortly I get a vague idea what to do. If I look at your map closely I still have absolutly no idea what to do. It gives me the same frustrating feeling I get if I reached an insurmountable hurdle with my own dungeons.


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#17 Shane

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 09:19 PM

You're completely right, I can't stand those sorts of opinions since they don't benefit anyone but letting people know something's not right. It is destructive because I'm just left to assume everything is not enjoyable. Is it that hard to point out what's not enjoyable? Look, I'm not asking for an essay I'm asking for something more specific (i.e switches are a little overdone and might be tedious) not something so vague that it just serves to leave the designer going "OK? I'm sorry to hear. Is there anyway I can improve it? No? OK no need to assume I'm angry for asking to help make you like my map after expressing you don't that much...".

 

I appreciate you trying to lighten things up but I've been very patient with these sorts of comments popping up in contests (not just exclusive here, or to me). But saying a huge part of my quest is not enjoyable and not specifying what exactly IS annoying and IS destructive especially if hypothetically my quest was still in development I would have to pause and just assume what's not enjoyable and delete and alter things. Fun factor is an important factor in dungeon design so of course I want people to go into a bit more detail. Also I thought Dungeon of the Month was more for that kind of critique, but oh well. Whatever floats your boat I guess, not gonna get angry there since you have some point there I suppose.


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#18 Naru

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 04:23 AM

After reading this I really feel like giving you a big fatherly hug. You are a very creative person. Even if you don't do anything with art or writing I think you will feel incredible unsatisfied if you don't find some way to let out your creativity. And whenever you are creative there are people that give destructive feedback, a lot harsher than in this case. Try to learn to stand above such words.

If I didn't say this direct enough, everything I think that could be problematic with your map was said by Binx already, and far better expressed than I ever could :P

Regarding your second part (starting with "I appreciate ...") you make me cringe. That is just soo wrong. "A huge part of my quest is not enjoyable"? That is overdoing it big time. I am an expert in regards of self-hatred and it seems to me like you hate yourself a lot. Maybe not the best place to bring this up. Anyway, your thoughts on how you should hypothetically react if it would be still in development is just messed up. To feel a bit down would be normal. And it is OK to ask what is wrong. But it is impossible to judge something that is still in development for how it will be finished. To betray your own vision is the worst you can do. Even if it doesn't get out as great as you hoped, to finish something is a great thing. It is far more useful to you than to keep struggling for perfection and limit your own progress. The best way to improve is to try over and over again and grow from your failures. Eddy for example, each of his quest is better than the previous one and he admits himself that he did some things wrong (like a last dungeon large enough to be a full quest ;) ). Still, he is proud of his quests, he created them with his own hands after all. That is how it should be done.

#19 Russ

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:38 AM

Huh. So back when nicklegends quit the contest, he raised this as a complaint.

The size of a map greatly affects its success in the contest. This may intimidate new participants from submitting their more modest work for fear of going against a 256-screen masterpiece. Other contests have natural limits (one screen, one enemy, etc.) that are more fair to entrants, in my opinion.

At the time, I thought he was exaggerating. Then I saw Demonlink's map. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp. Anyways...

Russ - do I have to know what "Earthbound" is? Zaxaphone mentioned it in the last SotW. Looks great. Clashes a bit with DoR though. Then again DoR clashes often enough with itself :P

No, you don't have to know what EarthBound is, per se. But if you're curious, it's an RPG, the game Ness from Smash Bros is from, that starts out in a small American town. While I'm not really making an EarthBound quest, the start is definitely inspired by the game (starting in a rural town as a boy in a baseball cap with magic powers), and the houses used in the map are ripped from EarthBound's sequel, so the comparisons are bound to be made. Thanks for the comments!
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#20 Demonlink

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:24 AM

Then I saw Demonlink's map. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp. Anyways...

I am guilty. :P

 

But, if map sizes do actually affect the contest, I suggest making a small adjustment to the rules before submitting. Something among the lines of "x number of screens are needed to enter, but don't go above x number of screens either". That should make this contest a bit more fair to be honest. :)


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#21 Binx

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:31 AM

I'm not completely sure I agree. Both MotMs I was in, I lost to a map considerably smaller than mine, and Demonlink's map isn't the largest one this time 'round, either. I think it's much more about the quality of the map than the size, except when the maps are equal in quality.



#22 Jared

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:31 AM

I like Russ's Mother 3 tiles, although they're not too fitting. But they help set up the mood nicely. :)



#23 Item

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:53 AM

They all look good. They should all win. Too bad I only had to choose one :(


Edited by Item, 02 May 2017 - 10:53 AM.


#24 Russ

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 02:14 PM

But, if map sizes do actually affect the contest, I suggest making a small adjustment to the rules before submitting. Something among the lines of "x number of screens are needed to enter, but don't go above x number of screens either". That should make this contest a bit more fair to be honest. :)

I'd considered proposing it, but that also have its issues. Your map is really cool, so why should you be penalized for putting together and big, interconnected map? The issue is just that there's really not a fair way to do it, save for setting different map sizes for different months, but that would just further hurt the number of submissions.

I'm sure there's a solution, but it's hardly simple. :P

#25 Matthew

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 02:45 PM

Would it hurt the number of submission though? Why not limit map sizes for a little bit, and see how it turns out? Or, just limit the areas that can be included in a map, so one wouldn't be able to just put a huge map and have a higher chance of winning.

For example, make it so people can only submit maps with one area in them, rather than multiple ones.

Edited by ( ͡° _ʖ ͡°), 02 May 2017 - 02:46 PM.


#26 Shane

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 02:52 PM

I don't mind a huge map against a small map. I could see how it could affect the poll results maybe but it takes more time and effort to make a high quality map large in scope so I think it deserves to be in the contest. Plus big doesn't mean better by default. A small 8x8 overworld of decent quality can still have a chance to beat a larger map that's more empty and lifeless.

 

But if we get a rule change I won't mind but I don't mind too much personally either way. I also don't see it decreasing submissions since big maps are more rare(?).


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#27 Norzan

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 03:57 PM

I didn't give my vote to Demonlink's overworld because it was big, i gave it because it looks awesome. The screen design is fantastic, the aumont of detal is amazing and i can just feel the atmosphere by just looking at it.

 

 

And for some reason i decided to mentally beat Shane's dungeon.

Spoiler


Edited by Norzan, 02 May 2017 - 04:01 PM.

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#28 Eddy

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:48 AM

And here are the results!
 

Joelmacool - (1 vote [3.33%])

Russ - (3 votes [10.00%])

TheRock - (0 votes [0.00%])

Polaris - (7 votes [23.33%])

Demonlink - (14 votes [46.67%])

Matthew - (5 votes [16.67%])

 

This month's winner is Demonlink! Congratulations!


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