51 replies to this topic

[Mitchfork]

It's not even really about realism for me, I just think they would look better if the green wasn't as heavy as it is. If you want green go for a light, desaturated variant.

[Jupiter]

Yes, agreed. You're right, and I've already acquiesced to demands for a color change...in fact I have decided green is not the right color at all...but I'm not going with plain wood.

Thanks for the feedback.

Edited by Jupiter, 15 April 2010 - 06:33 PM.

[Radien]

Thanks for the compliments and advice. Much appreciated (hope you're feeling well, btw).

Thanks! I'm doing all right.

Yes, I ripped them myself and made some (minuscule) edits . I posted a link to a site with all the Golden Sun graphics in the "Custom Tile Showcase" about a week ago if anyone else is interested. These are using the exact same number of colors as the source art from GS (depending on the colors I use I layer on the crossbeams and parts of the roof), so 8 bit is not necessary...and it reduces the options if one wants to use different colors.

I've fessed up to the fact that some different colors would help the shot, but I am *highly resistant* to the belief that the crossbeams must look like plain wood. I have no problem wood, don't get me wrong, wood is good. But many of yous probably live in a painted dwellings...if not all of you. The pyramids in Egypt were painted once upon a time people...certainly some houses in a fantasy game that features walking red & blue octopi that shoot rocks from their snouts can handle colored painted wood...it's not even unrealistic...there are numerous farmhouses with painted crossbeams in my home town.

Okay, since I now know your intent, let me revise my suggestion.

I think the greens are too dark. They look like they were colored that way on accident. If you use much lighter greens, it'll match better with the other colors.

The thing is, even if you have tiles that use 15 or fewer colors, there's no guarantee that one of the CSets in your tileset will suit the needs of those tiles. Sometimes you need 8-bit mode to access the colors in the full palette that best suit a graphic.

There are pluses and minuses to 8-bit mode, so it's up to the designer to gauge the payoff. Since DoR was originally designed for 4-bit tiles, for instance, the payoff of using 8-bit varies widely. 8-bit would be more beneficial if the tileset's palettes were specifically designed with 8-bit in mind. However, that doesn't mean 8-bit mode can't still be useful in DoR.

With that same spirit, I don't understand why lack of a subscreen matters much for this competition. Yeah, a cool subscreen is a plus...but I'm more interested in aesthetics and layout--no subscreen is not a minus in my book, but [repeat paragraph four].

During play, a player pays frequent attention to the subscreen. Also, most video games can't function without a subscreen. Seeing a subscreen on a screenshot brings you into the game. It tells you a lot about what's going on and makes it much easier to imagine playing it. It also makes the game look closer to completion -- whether or not it is, giving that feeling makes it look better.

If you look at professional screenshots, you'll notice that only the earliest shots -- sometimes beta screenshots -- lack a subscreen. They mostly cut it out because they haven't finalized the GUI system. Since ZC only has a limited number of ways to use the GUI, though, there is less of a reason to cut out subscreens. Usually people only leave it out because they haven't finalized the subscreen graphics. But you really should complete those graphics; it's well worth your while, aesthetically.

[Shane]

Heh, I don't want to insult you but you shouldn't answer me like that. I perfectly know Chrono Trigger and screens aren't empty like this one.

I don't take that as in insult. I don't know Chrono Trigger that well, and I didn't answer as if you wrong through. maybe the tiles is are incomplete? Anyways were being of Topic.

Jupiter: I agree with lemon the green should be toned down and I know you did it already.

Sheik: The forest is beautiful the path could use a bit more rubble and why is Link playing a ocarina near a powerful enemy? I think his playing the Tarm Ruins music *Shot*

Dawnlight: My lord why did you quit your screens a blast, a masterpiece, a BLASTERPEICE... (I love that line of Spirit Tracks.)

Molten Onyx: I no fan of Chrono Trigger but that does not stop me from voting you. *Votes*

Mow2wo: I not going to lie, I don't like the screens when you mix up you trees I always have this in my mind "Stick with one tree 2 colors like LI" when I see bushes like that I say "Replace the second bush with a flower kind of like what LI did." to me thats the most awesome pure quest yet (as well as SoD, LoRII, PoS, Salow Cut and EoA.) what I'm saying is use the LI method. Variety is good but too much Variety kills the screen.

[Jupiter]

@Radien

Yes, I'm on board with all the comments about adjusting the palette...lighter green on the crossbeams might be better, but as there was already a surfeit of greens in the shot I switched them up to a purplish color and might ultimately go with something bluish. I'm also going to throw in a second tree color and change up those foot stones.

There are certainly things that work much better 8-bit. But it's easier to have a variety of house colors (which I prefer) sticking with 4-bit and using layering.

During play, a player pays frequent attention to the subscreen. Also, most video games can't function without a subscreen. Seeing a subscreen on a screenshot brings you into the game. It tells you a lot about what's going on and makes it much easier to imagine playing it. It also makes the game look closer to completion -- whether or not it is, giving that feeling makes it look better.

If you look at professional screenshots, you'll notice that only the earliest shots -- sometimes beta screenshots -- lack a subscreen. They mostly cut it out because they haven't finalized the GUI system. Since ZC only has a limited number of ways to use the GUI, though, there is less of a reason to cut out subscreens. Usually people only leave it out because they haven't finalized the subscreen graphics. But you really should complete those graphics; it's well worth your while, aesthetically.

I completely understand your reasoning here. It makes sense. I can't deny that a subscreen gives a shot a more active feel.

But its just not something that, in evaluating shots in this competition, I would disqualify or significantly ding shots for. If it has aesthetic appeal (which of course shots can independently of a subscreen) and interesting layout from a gameplay perspective, that's what I want to see. I just don't think of the subscreen as an inseparable part of screen design, even if a good one can add to it and make it feel more complete. If I was rating a quest, my thoughts would be different. But your rationale, while I feel differently, is certainly valid.

Edited by Jupiter, 15 April 2010 - 10:08 PM.

[Radien]

@Radien

Yes, I'm on board with all the comments about adjusting the palette...lighter green on the crossbeams might be better, but as there was already a surfeit of greens in the shot I switched them up to a purplish color and might ultimately go with something bluish. I'm also going to throw in a second tree color and change up those foot stones.

There are certainly things that work much better 8-bit. But it's easier to have a variety of house colors (which I prefer) sticking with 4-bit and using layering.
I completely understand your reasoning here. It makes sense. I can't deny that a subscreen gives a shot a more active feel.

But its just not something that, in evaluating shots in this competition, I would disqualify or significantly ding shots for. If it has aesthetic appeal (which of course shots can independently of a subscreen) and interesting layout from a gameplay perspective, that's what I want to see. I just don't think of the subscreen as an inseparable part of screen design, even if a good one can add to it and make it feel more complete. If I was rating a quest, my thoughts would be different. But your rationale, while I feel differently, is certainly valid.

Green, purple...they're all good. if you want painted beams, you can have any color so long as it looks painted. That's just a matter of getting the right shade. On that note, I'd go for lighter purples since the house is most likely goiing to be standing in daylight (or moonlight, even).

Yes, 4-bit has the advantage of being able to switch colors. But the more detail your graphics have, the harder it is to continue using 4-bit. It's a bit of a juggling act, believe me, I know.

As for subscreens in SOTW, I usually use them as one of a number of "tiebreaker" elements. If two screens are nearly equal in quality, and I have a hard time deciding, I go with the one that looks more professional and complete... namely, has a subscreen, looks functional, uses the fewest "shortcuts" to completion.

The main problem with cutting out the subscreen is that it's incredibly obvious you're doing it. Everybody knows that something should be there, even after ZC 2.5 introduced custom subscreens.

Fortunately, I rarely have to use it as a tiebreaker. The best screens that are entered in this contest usually have subscreens anyway, even if they could have won without them.

[Mitchfork]

Jupiter - 17 votes = [38.64%]
Sheik - 8 votes = [18.18%]
Dawnlight - 11 votes = [25.00%]
Molten Onyx - 3 votes = [6.82%]
Moo2wo - 5 votes = [11.36%]
Total votes: 44

Jupiter

Welcome this is a farmhouse. We have cluster flies alas, and this time of year is bad...

In one of the longest SotW threads ever, Jupiter has emerged victorious! Congratulations!