20 replies to this topic

[SCKnuckles]

For the longest time, I really can't give an update on the quest itself because, no progress has been worked on. I really have been wanting to have this quest series to come out and all I got was banter for ever asking for help. It looks like this quest may reach an indefinite hiatus because I have not heard from Atrus since March and I have a feeling he has gone M.I.A. Plus, I have mentioned that I ain't a good quest maker and wanted to collaborate with some to help make this series. I still want that, but only one, as I feel having different people work on it may lead to creative differences. I know that has been mentioned to me, but I am admitting it now. I don't see why two people can't collaborate to make a quest with one making the layout and one writing the story. I like to write the story for this because I really want ZC to tell it for me rather just plain write it out somewhere. On top of that, the quest will also feature things that I deem therapeutic to me. I don't think it's weird that making a game is helpful for me. Artists making paintings, authors write books, and singers write songs to help out there bad times, why can't games do that for anyone? So with all that said, I just want to find someone who would to collaborate on this series, whoever is kind enough to do so. Asking for multiple people was a big mistake as I received banter deemed unnecessary and leading to quests being suspended from my LP list. If at least one game in the series comes out, the suspension will go away. If there is anyone who wants to collaborate with me, message me personally. Remember, the series is 11 titles, seems long, but I like to think long-term. Thank you for reading and keep enjoying my LP's because I love doing all your quests and hearing me rant.

[Cukeman]

It's okay to want to collaborate on a quest, but if you're not "a good quest maker" then you might be better off helping someone out who does have strong quest making skills if you want to get something done. It sounds like getting something completed is very important to you, and in that case I think it would be more rewarding to you to contribute some ideas to someone else's project, someone who is already a skilled quest maker. I'm thinking you would have more satisfaction contributing some of your great ideas to a project led by someone who gets their quests finished, rather than being frustrated that your projects don't reach completion.

 

I know that in real life there are project leaders and directors who get to lead a project in the direction they have in mind, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with being in that kind of supervisory role, but that happens when their team members are PAID to do that work. With Zelda Classic, people are typically using the program in their spare time without being paid for it. That makes it very hard get a team together on a large project and keep everyone motivated in the long term (especially if they aren't getting to use their own ideas). Keep in mind that even some of the best quest makers take very long breaks from their projects, it can be hard to squeeze Zelda Classic development into our life, sometimes we just get unexpectedly busy when life throws something at us.

 

Just my two cents, hope it helps. I know you want to do great things but since this is an unpaid fan community, and you feel that your quest making skills aren't as strong as they could be, you might be better off with more realistic expectations and setting smaller goals for yourself. 

 

Either way I hope you can find a way to enjoy using the program. Personally speaking, I sometimes find the act of just making something to be rewarding even if it doesn't get finished. 

 

EDIT: And hey, just maybe, if people see your contributions working great you just might end up getting more people interested in working on your ideas

Edited by Cukeman, 30 June 2017 - 09:37 AM.

[Moosh]

Even putting aside the obvious elephant in the room of an 11 part series, I think that's been talked to death by now, let's focus on just the first quest in the series and ask some questions that I feel will help improve your pitch:

 

Length?

One of the first questions I think we should ask is how long do you want this quest to be? And how much are you willing to compromise on length? Currently I'd say the 16*8 overworld with 9 dungeons and Ganon is a bit of a dying breed. Not impossible, just much less common. Shorter quests seem to be the new norm.

 

Format?

How do you want the quest to be laid out? There's of course the traditional 9 dungeons and Ganon that I mentioned, but more and more quests seem to be branching out lately. Would you want the quest to be top-down or sideview? Linear or open ended? Tying into the length, would you want a few large gameplay sections or many smaller and more compact ones? Looking at the title, I wonder if it could even work as a Megaman style quest where you go to different stages in any order you want and the items from each make the others easier. Each stage could be based on a different Let's Player.

 

Tileset?

Do you have any tileset or style in mind? Would custom tilework be necessary? Generally Classic and Gameboy seem to be the fastest tilesets to work with.

 

Story?

How will the story play out between the series? Will each entry be an independent game on its own merits or would they depend on each other to feel complete? Personally I think the first entry of a series should always stand on its own for the most part so if there isn't a sequel nobody gets disappointed. Either way I think it's important that a potential designer who may not necessarily be a writer themself knows what they're getting into.

 

Example Ideas?

Do you have any ideas you want to see realized outside of just the story? Environments you'd want to see come to life? Items, enemies, characters, bosses? You'll probably need a basis like this to hook people in. Every time I've planned out a quest with Russ, it's started as just a vague premise and then we bounce more precise examples of that premise in motion off each other to see what sticks. One of the first things I did for Bananas was plan out the layout of the world I wanted Russ to build, dividing a map grid into colored sectors.

 

Commitment to the project?

How much time are you willing to dedicate to the design process and how much do you expect from your designer? What times will you be available to talk design? When Russ and I collaborate we sometimes talk on Skype while working and screenshare the quest in progress. A second pair of eyes can do wonders for both motivation and catching bugs. Something like this could also have the secondary benefit of teaching you how to use ZQuest.

[Avaro]

Asking for multiple people was a big mistake as I received banter deemed unnecessary and leading to quests being suspended from my LP list.

 
Wait, can you explain this further? Are you not let's playing peoples quests because they disagreed making a quest with you? That would be ridiculous and petty if that were the case.

[Timelord]

Scheduling time overlaps is always a pain. I have this precise problem at present with regard to working onm Triforce Kmight. When i had time, BigJoe was not available, and now, I've been busy working on ZQuest. The time lag between GMT and...wherever Joe is, and our free days of the week, then my schedule differentce with Jon, makes it hard to find a good time to work on it regularly.

 

Part of that is my fault, but this is just one thing that you need to consider when working on a collaorative effort.

 

I would also never  want to sign on to do eleven chapters (separate quests, I expect?) at one time. If you concentrate on one at a time, you may save some sanity. On the flip-side, serialised quests are something that I want to add to 2.60, so that you can quite literally continue a quest from where you let off in the prior chapter, using a different .qst file.

 

I don't know if we will realise this idea, but I would ultimately like to do it. This would mean that both sequels, and multi-part quests (e.g., stories that can overlap) can share data. It sounds like a perfect feature for what you are trying to do, and while I do truly find your goals to be impressive, scaling back initially may get you some help.

 

If I misunderstood what you meant by eleven chapters, then please clarify.

[SCKnuckles]

Wait, can you explain this further? Are you not let's playing peoples quests because they disagreed making a quest with you? That would be ridiculous and petty if that were the case.

The case with that is that they were too direct with telling me what should do and not really suggesting. Also, one was calling it a cry to get people to watch my channel thinking this may be exclusive to it when it actually isn't. So that felt like an attack on my channel. Thus causing that.

Scheduling time overlaps is always a pain. I have this precise problem at present with regard to working onm Triforce Kmight. When i had time, BigJoe was not available, and now, I've been busy working on ZQuest. The time lag between GMT and...wherever Joe is, and our free days of the week, then my schedule differentce with Jon, makes it hard to find a good time to work on it regularly.
 
Part of that is my fault, but this is just one thing that you need to consider when working on a collaorative effort.
 
I would also never  want to sign on to do eleven chapters (separate quests, I expect?) at one time. If you concentrate on one at a time, you may save some sanity. On the flip-side, serialised quests are something that I want to add to 2.60, so that you can quite literally continue a quest from where you let off in the prior chapter, using a different .qst file.
 
I don't know if we will realise this idea, but I would ultimately like to do it. This would mean that both sequels, and multi-part quests (e.g., stories that can overlap) can share data. It sounds like a perfect feature for what you are trying to do, and while I do truly find your goals to be impressive, scaling back initially may get you some help.
 
If I misunderstood what you meant by eleven chapters, then please clarify.

Yes there will be 11 quests and I ain't expecting all at once, just one at a time. It's just how I vision it and want it to go. If you are up for it, let me know via private message and I'll be more specific.

Even putting aside the obvious elephant in the room of an 11 part series, I think that's been talked to death by now, let's focus on just the first quest in the series and ask some questions that I feel will help improve your pitch:
 
Length?
One of the first questions I think we should ask is how long do you want this quest to be? And how much are you willing to compromise on length? Currently I'd say the 16*8 overworld with 9 dungeons and Ganon is a bit of a dying breed. Not impossible, just much less common. Shorter quests seem to be the new norm.
 
Format?
How do you want the quest to be laid out? There's of course the traditional 9 dungeons and Ganon that I mentioned, but more and more quests seem to be branching out lately. Would you want the quest to be top-down or sideview? Linear or open ended? Tying into the length, would you want a few large gameplay sections or many smaller and more compact ones? Looking at the title, I wonder if it could even work as a Megaman style quest where you go to different stages in any order you want and the items from each make the others easier. Each stage could be based on a different Let's Player.
 
Tileset?
Do you have any tileset or style in mind? Would custom tilework be necessary? Generally Classic and Gameboy seem to be the fastest tilesets to work with.
 
Story?
How will the story play out between the series? Will each entry be an independent game on its own merits or would they depend on each other to feel complete? Personally I think the first entry of a series should always stand on its own for the most part so if there isn't a sequel nobody gets disappointed. Either way I think it's important that a potential designer who may not necessarily be a writer themself knows what they're getting into.
 
Example Ideas?
Do you have any ideas you want to see realized outside of just the story? Environments you'd want to see come to life? Items, enemies, characters, bosses? You'll probably need a basis like this to hook people in. Every time I've planned out a quest with Russ, it's started as just a vague premise and then we bounce more precise examples of that premise in motion off each other to see what sticks. One of the first things I did for Bananas was plan out the layout of the world I wanted Russ to build, dividing a map grid into colored sectors.
 
Commitment to the project?
How much time are you willing to dedicate to the design process and how much do you expect from your designer? What times will you be available to talk design? When Russ and I collaborate we sometimes talk on Skype while working and screenshare the quest in progress. A second pair of eyes can do wonders for both motivation and catching bugs. Something like this could also have the secondary benefit of teaching you how to use ZQuest.

The first one will be quite long because it is like you said, a Megaman style where you choose to go and once all is done, the final area. It will have the most dungeons though at over 40 but that one is the longest of all layout wise. My visions of the others are 2,3,5, and 9.1 will be like AR2. 4 will be unique like Dungeon Link. 6,7,8, and 9.2 will be mini 4 dungeon quests. And finally 10, the last one, will be isle of rebirth long. The tileset I chose is the BS one. The story will go across all of them with 9.1 and 9.2 happening at the same time.
My commitment to this project will be 95% at the time due to being an LPER and life as well. I can commit Fridays after work, Saturdays, and Sunday til evening.

[Anthus]

40 dungeons? Are these gonna be full dungeons? How much of the game world do you have mapped, or planned? Will all of these take place in the same world? That would make more sense if the first quest was eff huge, then the subsequent quests added upon that world.

Good luck finding someone willing to help you with this though. It's ambitious to say the least.

[Shane]

I'm going to be a bit of a realist here and claim that this quest let alone your series is way too ambitious for someone who's asking for people to do the work for him due to being incapable of being a lead designer. I mean 40 dungeons and it being open ended? That's going to be a lot of work and by the time your second entry comes perhaps things will become a bit stale. I can't say this with 100% confidence since I don't know what sort of ideas you have for your dungeons but I really don't think someone can produce a quest with 40 unique, equally fun dungeons and then proceed to make more for the series. I mean I'd like to be proven wrong but I just don't see it given the current predicament here. You're welcome to plan 11 quests, go for it. But unfortunately not every idea and story comes into fruition, I speak from experience. And even if it does prepare it being different from expectations, especially if you're trying to get others to work for you. And don't expect people to, not trying to be rude here. You haven't given much information and it sounds like a daunting task, and people don't get to express their full creativity with it.

 

I'd suggest you become familiar with the editor and produce a small, simple miniquest with a simplistic story. What's wrong with having that? Also suggest picking something simpler since BS has some complicated aspects (mainly the mountains) so I'd suggest Classic, Koten or FYS. I wouldn't suggest EZGBZ since, based on the screens, I think you'd have a bit of trouble with the set. I mean, I get the encouragement and support but I just don't think given the current skill set, how daunting of a task this truly is and I'll admit the overall attitude in regards to blacklisting quests is going to get this project far. If you can prove me wrong more power to you though.

[Naru]

I really like your ideas of having multiple chapters. I do something similar. Though for now just in my head .

I like changing things first in my head. Just by having a few weeks between it can give you the distance to see how silly some things were that exited you not long ago. But unlike me better make notes of all the good ideas you have. If we talk about small things instead of big gimmicks I am confident that I had more than enough ideas for 40 unique dungeons already XP

[SCKnuckles]

40 dungeons? Are these gonna be full dungeons? How much of the game world do you have mapped, or planned? Will all of these take place in the same world? That would make more sense if the first quest was eff huge, then the subsequent quests added upon that world.

Good luck finding someone willing to help you with this though. It's ambitious to say the least.

 First quest is basic.  An overworld in the center and an overworld on all 8 directions.  Dungeons are not gimmicky at all.  Think of it as Super randomizer like dungeons. 

 

.  

[Moosh]

It will have the most dungeons though at over 40

Your only hope there would be somehow getting HeroOfFire on board. He's the only one I know of who's completed a quest of that scale. And even then, most of his larger quests were just rehashing other people's work. I'm sorry, but you'll just be hard pressed to find someone with the time to make 40+ dungeons for one quest, let alone 9 full overworlds.

 

Best of luck though.

[Deedee]

So either this is a lack of time thing, or a lack of skill thing. 

For the former, you really have to prioritize what's important to you. Is the quest important enough to cut back on other stuff? You spend at least half an hour recording footage for your videos, per video. If this quest is really important to you, you could cut your upload speed in half to give you time to work on your quest. 

If the latter, people aren't just born great quest designers. Everybody starts out as a shitty game designer, and it's through learning what works and what doesn't that they get better. You may think "That's not true, some people's first quests are really good!", and to that I say, "because they have the common sense not to release their old shitty betas". It takes a long time experimenting to become really good, learn what looks good and what doesn't, what's acceptable and what isn't. You don't just start good, you have to put effort into becoming good, and honestly, whatever you make yourself will be better than whatever anyone else could make. Are you content with letting your story not be as good as it could be because you're willing to hand it off to someone else?

[SCKnuckles]

So either this is a lack of time thing, or a lack of skill thing. 

For the former, you really have to prioritize what's important to you. Is the quest important enough to cut back on other stuff? You spend at least half an hour recording footage for your videos, per video. If this quest is really important to you, you could cut your upload speed in half to give you time to work on your quest. 

If the latter, people aren't just born great quest designers. Everybody starts out as a shitty game designer, and it's through learning what works and what doesn't that they get better. You may think "That's not true, some people's first quests are really good!", and to that I say, "because they have the common sense not to release their old shitty betas". It takes a long time experimenting to become really good, learn what looks good and what doesn't, what's acceptable and what isn't. You don't just start good, you have to put effort into becoming good, and honestly, whatever you make yourself will be better than whatever anyone else could make. Are you content with letting your story not be as good as it could be because you're willing to hand it off to someone else?

I aint trying to make the number one quest, besides the story stands the way it is, just the layout is what is being worked on.  Everyone seems to think Im having someone make the entire quest.  No, they are making the layout not the story.  There is such thing as a quest designer and story writer yeah?  Is that what the creators of Tower of Courage are like?  Besides once the quest comes out, I'm glad, I just want one out before moving on to the next.  I like to think ahead and visualize what the story will be like.

[Deedee]

Everyone seems to think Im having someone make the entire quest. 

The entire thing? No. The entire gameplay? Yes. The gameplay is about 75-90% of the work most of the time, unless you're going for something minimal. Also, the setting is a huge part of any story, and right now you don't have one, so the story isn't technically complete. You should, at least, have a basic outline done in ZQuest, such as screen shape, area ideas, etc.

[SCKnuckles]

The entire thing? No. The entire gameplay? Yes. The gameplay is about 75-90% of the work most of the time, unless you're going for something minimal. Also, the setting is a huge part of any story, and right now you don't have one, so the story isn't technically complete. You should, at least, have a basic outline done in ZQuest, such as screen shape, area ideas, etc.

This one does, all that is ready, I have someone helping me out with it.  Wonder if Atrus is okay.  Wonder what happened to him....