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Screenshot of the Week 393


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Poll: Screenshot of the Week 393 (55 member(s) have cast votes)

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#16 Shane

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

I think Sheik's screen has more purpose then your standard overworld or dungeon transition shot. Not every screen needs to lead to a new one. Besides we have seen more overworld and dungeon shots that have enemies and paths to new screens then fairy fountain screens. icon_razz.gif

Edited by Shane, 26 December 2012 - 08:00 AM.


#17 Sheik

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:25 AM

QUOTE(Orin XD @ Dec 26 2012, 01:05 PM) View Post

@Shiek:
I judge screens mostly on how they function in the quest and there was no way, judging on the screen alone, that I could for certain see it as more than just a simple fairy screen which we see in a bazillion other quests, hence my pessimism. Overworld and dungeon screens, as a rule, give the player multiple interesting things to do like attacking enemies or simply walking through to get to a new... screen. Your screen only has one: talk to the fairy as part of the sidequest. Understand that.
I, however did go a little far with the 'fancy graphics=/= good screen' comment, but I feel that the fancy tileset/graphics thing is very overrated. What I care for more is the design of the screen rather than the graphics. Don't get me wrong, but good graphics do help a screen for me.

But who'd like to fight enemies in Fairy Fountain? It's a Zelda fan game. There are no enemies in Fairy Fountains. There are faeries. ._. Besides, how do you know you can't walk past that waterfall to find a hidden spot? Now, I'm not doing this since I've posted it here which kind of destroys the secret part about, but it's possible to do that. Also, not every screen has to be a transition. Some screens have to be destinations, too. The point of transition screens is that they lead somewhere.

As far as graphics and design go, I believe that a symmetric, round shape works well enough for a Fairy Fountain. I did not want it to be square, but I wanted to keep it simple enough. I was considering putting a fancy pond there as seen in tMC but I've decided against the idea because I want a slightly simple, GB-esque design. Besides, I wouldn't call the tileset fancy. It's pretty much Evile's MZC tileset with BS mountains.

We'll have to agree that we disagree I guess. icon_shrug.gif

Edit: Further, the Fairy Fountain is as simple as it is because I'm keeping all of them in a consistent style. I go a little beyond what's typically Zelda by designing them around their respective fairy's theme with a unique palette for each; but they are just Fairy Fountains, after all. Here's another example, this is the fountain of the Great Fairy in the lava area:
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Edited by Sheik, 26 December 2012 - 08:34 AM.


#18 strike

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:38 AM

Sheik, I think you need to put some small border between the edge of the walls and the floor. On the vertical side of the wall it kind of looks like the wall is floating. Do you see what I mean? If not just tell me and I'll be more specific. Hope that helps.

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#19 Sheik

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:40 AM

I think I know what you are talking about. Thanks.

#20 Moosh

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:57 AM

Sheik, I think it's time we had the talk. See the birds and the bees? They make fairy fountains. All the animals do it. Nintendo makes fairy fountains and so does Capcom. It helps legitimize the E rating to have fairy fountains. Sure Hyrule has some racism issues with all the black people living in the desert as outcasts, sure Ganondorf pukes blood, gets a sword stuck in his head, and gets impaled over the course of the series, but we got fairies. It's a game for children, guys. The point is everyone makes fairy fountains, but not us. If you make a fairy fountain you will get an FTD (fairy transmitted disease) and you will die. No exceptions.

Fairy fountains, despite being a time honored Zelda tradition, just don't work in practice. The chances of the player finding one when they're one hit from death are rather slim and the chances that they feel like they just wasted a bomb blowing open that wall are very high. When a fairy fountain contains some sort of ammo upgrade it usually feels unnecessary. What's the difference in the end between being able to carry thirty bombs or fifty? Nothing much. You'll never need all those bombs anyways. So needless to say I'm not fond of fairy fountain rooms.

Voted for Dragonite this week. His shot was the most exciting overall. I'm kinda tired right now. Will probably assign individual screen critiques later...

#21 Sheik

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 05:14 AM

QUOTE(Moosh @ Dec 28 2012, 02:57 PM) View Post

Fairy fountains, despite being a time honored Zelda tradition, just don't work in practice. The chances of the player finding one when they're one hit from death are rather slim and the chances that they feel like they just wasted a bomb blowing open that wall are very high. When a fairy fountain contains some sort of ammo upgrade it usually feels unnecessary. What's the difference in the end between being able to carry thirty bombs or fifty? Nothing much. You'll never need all those bombs anyways. So needless to say I'm not fond of fairy fountain rooms.

I partially agree and partially disagree. The healing is more or less useless, though it is a nice thing if the player actually IS low on health and close to a fairy for once. Though I thank you for putting a decent amount of actual thought in your comment. It's much appreciated.

Anyways, concerning the upgrades (that are all optional) here's a list of what's default first and then the upgrade next:

8 Bombs -> 12 Bombs
20 Arrows -> 30 Arrows
20 Ember Seeds -> 30 Ember Seeds
1 Bottle (1 Potion) -> 2 Bottles (2 Potions)
Magic -> Double Magic
Sidequest -> useful item

I'm not having the player have ridiculous amounts of 99 bombs or arrows or anything. Ammunition should feel at least somewhat limited and the upgrade should remove these limitations largely.

#22 Shane

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 05:35 AM

So what are the chances of blowing up a wall, finding a fairy that upgrades your bomb bag and then feeling like they wasted a bomb again? icon_razz.gif I agree about the healing part of a fairy fountain, you got potions and hearts from bushes. But what if you have a half a heart left and you a desperate to complete a 0 death run? A fairy fountain regenerates all your health unlike hearts and they can be used at any time and freely unlike potions. Remember: everything has pros and cons. icon_wink.gif

Edited by Shane, 29 December 2012 - 05:38 AM.


#23 Hergiswi

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:46 AM

Jared: I like this shot a lot, especially with your subscreen. The palette alongside the tileset just looks elegant (plus there are no mountains icon_wink.gif).

Dragonite: I don't personally like the subscreen text, but that's really just a matter of opinion. The screen looks good and very GBC-esque.

Keiichi123: This screen is very white, but the color of the enemies offsets it nicely.

Lightwulf: I thought this screen was a little boring, but then I read that it's supposed to be a uvula and it gave me a much more interesting perspective. Nice work.

Sheik: This is just cool-looking, especially the water. It's a really nice setup for a fairy fountain.

These shots are all clearly very good, but Jared won my heart vote this week.

Edited by Hergiswi, 31 December 2012 - 04:40 PM.


#24 Shane

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

QUOTE(Orin XD @ Dec 26 2012, 08:59 AM) View Post
[...] in the top left corner, the borders of the floor of the castle roof are sitting right on the top screen border. This can cause walkability issues, particularly if the quest rule 'Smart Screen Scrolling' is disabled. Fix this by raising the borders to the screen above. [...]

What if the roof is not an area you can explore on? icon_shrug.gif

Edited by Shane, 30 December 2012 - 01:59 AM.


#25 Radien

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 06:42 AM

I voted for Jared because I found a lot of totally different things to like about the screen. icon_smile.gif I like the graphics, I like the colors, it has an intriguing and functional subscreen, and just enough is happening on-screen for me to imagine myself playing and enjoying it.

QUOTE(Moosh @ Dec 28 2012, 05:57 AM) View Post
Fairy fountains, despite being a time honored Zelda tradition, just don't work in practice. The chances of the player finding one when they're one hit from death are rather slim and the chances that they feel like they just wasted a bomb blowing open that wall are very high. When a fairy fountain contains some sort of ammo upgrade it usually feels unnecessary. What's the difference in the end between being able to carry thirty bombs or fifty? Nothing much. You'll never need all those bombs anyways. So needless to say I'm not fond of fairy fountain rooms.

Funny part left out of quote, with apologies. icon_frown.gif

Anyway, I think fairy fountains serve a perfectly good purpose, or at least they can. There are times in a Zelda game when I leave a dangerous area with the intent to "refuel." At this point it's not too hard to find an area where the enemies aren't a threat, but if there isn't a way to refill all my life at once for free, then I have to waste time farming for hearts (and/or rupees to buy potions), and that's not fun. It's just drudgery.

Sure, it's rare that you'll FIND a fairy fountain just when you're short on life, but the point is to make a note of where it is, and come back when you need it. Basically, they act like "inns" do in RPGs. In Ocarina of Time, I've made a note of the fairy fountain near the Sacred Meadow, and whenever I need a quick heart refill (or more importantly in that game, some bottled fairies), I fast-track it to the Sacret Meadow and get me some fairies.

Additionally, Sheik seems to be working fairies into the themes of the game more than most Nintendo titles. Quick: can you NAME all the Great Fairies in Ocarina of Time (Great Fairy of Power, etc.), and tell me where they are, solely by name?... Probably not. From the looks of it, Sheik is making his Great Fairies much more individual. It shouldn't be hard to remember a fire fairy.

Lastly, functionality doesn't HAVE to be the number one purpose of something like a fairy fountain. If Sheik truly works the Great Fairies into the STORY, as active participants in some way, then it won't be a problem if their function is of lesser importance. Twilight Princess *almost* did this with its light spirits. They serve a major role in the story, and provide many of the usual fairy fountain functions. The only difference is that they technically aren't Great Fairies -- in TP the Great Fairy appears in the Cave of Ordeals, instead.

Comparison: in Zelda titles, the Triforce itself rarely does much in-game. I can't remember a time when it ever boosted your defenses or increased your sword damage. The most it ever does, as far as I can remember, is refill your life... just once. But thanks to its story significance (meaning, the dialog tells a lot about it) and its importance as a game progression item, it is a widely-accepted part of the Zelda series.

Honestly, I probably would have voted for the "fire fairy" screenshot Sheik displayed in a later post. As it stands, his actual entry came in 2nd on my list of favorites.

#26 Shoelace

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:04 PM

I voted for Dragonite on this one. It stuck out being the most interesting.

But about the fairy fountain debate. I am all for fairy fountains in a FAN game. It is Zelda game after all. And it is Sheik's vision of the game. The design for the screen is good for a fairy fountain. It is simple and effective, however, it doesn't need to be anything more than that as it serves it's purpose. Based on the designer, you can leave it be just a healing pond like other Zelda games, or you can add them as part of the story. Both are just design decisions that the creator alone should choose.

#27 Neppy

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:43 AM

Jared - 11 votes = 22.92%
Dragonite - 12 votes = 25.00%
Keiichi123 - 9 votes = 18.75%
Lightwulf - 1 vote = 2.08%
Sheik - 15 votes = 31.25%

Total Votes: 48

Sheik
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Fairy Fountain


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