163 replies to this topic

[Moosh]

After a short Hiatus from working (A.K.A. playing through Hero of Dreams), I have started working on Level 5. Here's some screenies:

The entrance to level-5. Seeing the Neo Epoch in a Zelda game is always a bad sign (long live the Crimson Echoes team!)

Yup, the Kirby enemy from LA is back, because this level's theme is: Unwanted crossovers!

Invisible coin blocks: ProtonJon hates them and so should you!

This dungeon will have more open space than the previous four.

==============================================================================
Custom enemies:
Kirby - Acts like a Pols Voice, shoots magic, and stuns your items if you touch it, EDIT: No longer shoot magic to reduce overall difficulty
Metroid - Charges you and drains your health *scree*
Black Mage - A weaker version of the blue Wizzrobe that can be killed in one hit by the wand
Goomba - Weak, but super fast, EDIT: Now gives link drunk status when touched
Airquamentus - An airman aquamentus that shoots wind

New tricks:
One way conveyor belts
Shaky floors
Invisible coin blocks (because ProtonJon hates them)

Edited by Pokemonmaster64, 20 April 2010 - 10:25 PM.

[cosmofield]

This seems to be something exceptional, candidate for the best classic style in a long time. Looking forward for it. The palettes have soft colors, me like. But why have the Kirbies a different behavior? I like being swallowed by 'em, or maybe not.

[Moosh]

I originally had the kirbys swallow you, but I wanted to reserve that behavior for the metroids. I figured that since kirby swallows his enemies and spits them out as stars, magic was the best equivalent for this behavior. I have managed to implement the airquamentus, but I don't think the original idea of having it shoot wind is going to work (it only shoots the wind vertically), so I'll make it a normal aquamentus but twice as strong.

What are your opinions on the enemies always appear quest rule? I know it made DFW's Wolfstyle DX a bit annoying, but I've been having problems with some of my custom enemies not appearing after being defeated once (re-entering the dungeon doesn't fix this).

The one way conveyor belts aren't going too swell either...

[Cameron]

I honestly think this will be a pretty good quest. Your ideas seem to be pretty original and I hope that actual gameplay lives up to it.

[cosmofield]

What are your opinions on the enemies always appear quest rule? I know it made DFW's Wolfstyle DX a bit annoying, but I've been having problems with some of my custom enemies not appearing after being defeated once (re-entering the dungeon doesn't fix this).

I like it, makes it easy to gather ruppes/HP from low-powered enemies, a drawback however is that you can't use the "endangered creature"-tactics with strong enemies. (one enemy left and they don't re-spawn on that screen) Using this quest rule makes it more important to choose the right enemies for the right screen, otherwise it would be to tedious with reduced game-flow.

I never found that my own custom enemies don't return, is there any settings that differs. Compare their rules with another enemy that behaves normal.

[Moosh]

I'm now done with level 5, and considering what to do with level 6...I'm thinking I'm going to make it the shortest level of any Zelda game and call it: Not Level-6. It will have a total of 3 rooms. Block puzzle (item as reward), boss, and rupee room. To make up for the lack of stuff, I'll make the overworld section before level 6 much bigger than usual. I want the block puzzle in level 6 to be as sadistically difficult as possible. Here's the problem: I'm no good at making difficult block puzzles. Could you maybe help me by posting images of the most sadistic block puzzles you can think up (do not provide solutions in case I pick yours to put in the level)?

[DarkFlameWolf]

Custom, definitely. The normal bosses are overused so much, even horrible custom bosses are better than the default Zelda 1 bosses.

Really? horrible?

[Russ]

Level 5 looks magnificent! Keep up the great work!

Really? horrible?

Yes. At least with horrible custom bosses, it's something different. I'm so used to the original Z1 bosses that I can beat some of them with my eyes closed. They're just so overused. Any change from them is a welcome change.

[Jupiter]

Yes. At least with horrible custom bosses, it's something different. I'm so used to the original Z1 bosses that I can beat some of them with my eyes closed. They're just so overused. Any change from them is a welcome change.

I commented earlier that custom bosses are a nice treat, but just mixing it up with standard bosses can be just as good--and I think to DFW's comment, that this is better than a "horrible" custom boss.

I posted this shot earlier today in another thread:



The bosses are all standard, but the six vertical traps that come out of those caves, the constant horizontal trap by the door, the fires that cause damage if you touch them, the statues that shoot fireballs, and the fact that there are multiple bosses in the room mix it all up and--I hope!--make it a new experience (hard to time a shot at Ghoma's eye with all that stuff going on).

A standard boss in a a room is pretty boring...but with some things to limit the players space and add some difficulty, it can still be fun.

In any case, I think that Pokemonmaster64 is well into deciding on bosses and such anyway.

Edited by Jupiter, 22 April 2010 - 02:26 PM.

[RedDeathX7]

This actually looks pretty cool, looks like something I would enjoy. Keep it up, I really enjoy playing classic quests.

[Moosh]

I commented earlier that custom bosses are a nice treat, but just mixing it up with standard bosses can be just as good--and I think to DFW's comment, that this is better than a "horrible" custom boss.

I posted this shot earlier today in another thread:



The bosses are all standard, but the six vertical traps that come out of those caves, the constant horizontal trap by the door, the fires that cause damage if you touch them, the statues that shoot fireballs, and the fact that there are multiple bosses in the room mix it all up and--I hope!--make it a new experience (hard to time a shot at Ghoma's eye with all that stuff going on).

A standard boss in a a room is pretty boring...but with some things to limit the players space and add some difficulty, it can still be fun.

In any case, I think that Pokemonmaster64 is well into deciding on bosses and such anyway.

My gripe with the original bosses is that if you set up the room to be an obstacle when fighting, the boss could become too hard and the aspect of fun is lost. However, if the boss room is left open, the boss becomes a "been there, done that" situation and feels very anticlimactic at the end of the dungeon. Taking the boss' strength and room setup into account, one must find a balance. Your Woeful Pit looks a bit imbalanced to me. With the position of the traps and shooters, there seems to be almost no way to survive unscathed. When designing bosses, I like to attempt to make it difficult, but possible to defeat (with some skills) and not take damage. If you plan on using that room in a quest, I would recommend you either remove the constant trap, or lessen the number of fireball shooters.

EDIT: I am assuming you would have lesser gear when fighting that boss than you do in the screenshot.

Edited by Pokemonmaster64, 22 April 2010 - 03:07 PM.

[Jupiter]

My gripe with the original bosses is that if you set up the room to be an obstacle when fighting, the boss could become too hard and the aspect of fun is lost. However, if the boss room is left open, the boss becomes a "been there, done that" situation and feels very anticlimactic at the end of the dungeon. Taking the boss' strength and room setup into account, one must find a balance. Your Woeful Pit looks a bit imbalanced to me. With the position of the traps and shooters, there seems to be almost no way to survive unscathed. When designing bosses, I like to attempt to make it difficult, but possible to defeat (with some skills) and not take damage. If you plan on using that room in a quest, I would recommend you either remove the constant trap, or lessen the number of fireball shooters.

Thanks Pokemonmaster64. I've played the room a bunch of times...it's very beatable given the items and health you should have by that point in the quest (and I'm not particularly good). I am definately not going to make it less dificult . If you play some of DarkFlameWolf's quests you'll note that she does similar things for her bosses (and just random dungeon rooms). Yes, some of them are quite hard, but hard can be a lot of fun.

In my book, if you're not taking any damage then it's probably not nearly hard enough...

For instance, think of Twilight Princess...the boss battles aren't that fun to me...they are pretty easy...in a Zelda game I want it to be enough of a challenge that I at least have to use a potion...take Metroid Prime as another example...I died several times before beating some of those bosses--but that made it fun.

I don't think a ZC quest should be super hard...they should be relatively fast compared to games published by a professional company, but I wouldn't want to have a game that I could get through with out getting hit, or dieing a few times.

Everybody has their preferences though.

Edited by Jupiter, 22 April 2010 - 03:17 PM.

[Moosh]

What I meant by that was not that your screen looked too easy, but rather that it felt too forced. It appears to be a sort of enter room>ignore insignificant damage>rush boss>run out. It feels like you are depending on the traps and shooters to defend the boss from link. In my opinion, the boss should be the main threat with traps/minions as extras. The main reason I dislike the Z1 bosses is that as the player becomes familiar with their patterns, they have become too weak to stand out as the main threat in a room. I feel that the boss should be chosen depending on the room, not the room depending on the boss. That's just my philosophy though, so I'm sorry if it seems that I'm trying to force it on you. Thanks to this discussion, though, I have seen that my boss choices have been rather poor and I should make them less forced.

[Jupiter]

What I meant by that was not that your screen looked too easy, but rather that it felt too forced. It appears to be a sort of enter room>ignore insignificant damage>rush boss>run out. It feels like you are depending on the traps and shooters to defend the boss from link. In my opinion, the boss should be the main threat with traps/minions as extras. The main reason I dislike the Z1 bosses is that as the player becomes familiar with their patterns, they have become too weak to stand out as the main threat in a room. I feel that the boss should be chosen depending on the room, not the room depending on the boss. That's just my philosophy though, so I'm sorry if it seems that I'm trying to force it on you. Thanks to this discussion, though, I have seen that my boss choices have been rather poor and I should make them less forced.

Yeah, no worries. I only posted that here to share ideas and respond to DFW/Russ on custom bosses...I did not mean to hijack your thread for a few posts start discussing my stuff, FWIW...and back on to your point, I completely agree with your philosophy about centering a boss battle around a boss...my suggestion is just taking into account that custom bosses take some time and extra effort if you want to make a good one (I don't have the time, skill, or patience to make all bosses custom), and that you can make a standard boss battle somewhat original by putting in some ancillary stuff or making the screen itself a challenge...but. But! If you have the gumption and confidence to go for making a cool custom boss that is going to behave in a significantly different way--I am 100% behind that!

[Moosh]

After a short hiatus (I was messing around trying to set up a trading quest that didn't work out), world 6, The Lost Land is now complete, however, I still need those block puzzle submissions to put in Level-6.

EDIT: Never mind. Since nobody submitted a block puzzle, I mad one myself. It isn't hard at all, but it will do. To make up for the easy block puzzle, the boss of Level-6 (which is 4 rooms big) is a 1-headed fire gleeok with a three headed gleeok underneath it.

Edited by Pokemonmaster64, 04 May 2010 - 04:22 PM.