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Perspective issues with 16x16


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#16 Radien

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:47 PM

I think the discussion is a little misdirected. Even though /M/'s topic title says "perspective issues," what he was originally talking about has more to do with scale.

Actually, I think these two things have little to do with each other. Yes, each of the various skewed perspective dungeon wall sets in ZC are designed for a player sprite of a specific height, but if you only look at one wall at a time (say, the north walls), the scale compared to Link is always the same issue as it would be in a different perspective.

Anyway, yes, the "tiny sprites" problem has been present in ZC for a long time. But ZC is not a game-maker program to end all game-maker programs, even within the scope of programs designed for creating action/adventure games like The Legend of Zelda. The main reason I use it, and I suspect the main reason MOST people use it, is its accessibility. You don't really need to learn a single line of code (optional scripting notwithstanding). So, I'm willing to put up with the style limitations.

Maybe someday the developers will start over from scratch and program something based on the LTTP system. But as it stands, this is what we've got, and small sprites are just a funny little quirk that we have to deal with.

Oh, and by the way, small enemies are not foreign to the Zelda series, even when Link is taller. Using Minish Cap as an example, the leevers and peahats and octoroks, for starters, are barely bigger than 16x16. I have had great success scaling those and many, many other enemies down to 16x16, and some of them took only a tiny bit of modification.

Of course, enemies like stalfos and moblins and darknuts really are meant to be larger, but my point is simply that if the devs decided to incorporate larger enemies, not every enemy would necessarily need to be recreated solely for size accuracy.

#17 Thunderfist

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 06:14 AM

Right.. So, I actually did craft a custom game manually drawing tons of sprites, and it's not enough detail. But you can use SNES tilesets, so it must be possible to add more detail/ pixels per tile. So how do I do that? Is there a guide somewhere to manually drawing 32X32 tiles?

#18 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 01:11 AM

Right.. So, I actually did craft a custom game manually drawing tons of sprites, and it's not enough detail. But you can use SNES tilesets, so it must be possible to add more detail/ pixels per tile. So how do I do that? Is there a guide somewhere to manually drawing 32X32 tiles?

 

I have no clue what you mean here.

 

Tiles in ZC are a fixed size, and Z3 tiles are no different. Technically, Z3 uses 8px by 8px tiles, but the total screen resolution is the same as Z1; except that there is no pasive subscreen eating up the first 56 lines.

 

ZC is technically also capable of this, but only with very advanced scripting:

 

 

 

In these videos, I reconstructed the playfield of entire maps and I drew it to a bitmap, that I blit to the screen, with a transparent background behind the passive subscreen, which demonstrates that the actual screen resolution is identical. The NES/Famicom and the SNES/Super Famicom otherwise output the same number of scanlines (only PAL/NTSC differ slightly), with the same horizontal and vertical screen dimensions, in pixels.

 

Tile resolution and overall playfield resolution are not involved.

 

If you want 2x2 tile blocks, that are 32x32 tiles, you can construct them as combo aliases. This does not increase the number of pixels per tile.

 

A Z3 rock, or bush, as an example, is 16 pixels square. Objects can be composed out of multiple tiles--remember that the actual game uses 8x8--allowing them to be 16x24, 24x16, 24x24, 32x16, 16x32, 32x34 and so forth. Doing *that* in ZC is trickier, requiring scripts, or 2.55, or both.

 

Sprites in 2.55 can now be any size with hitboxes matching their size, but screen combo spaces are fixed at 16x16, so if you need larger interaction objects, then they need to be sprites, or ffcs; and you must script (or attach predesigned scripts) to handle their interaction.

 

e.g., a Z3 statue could be an ffc or a sprite, if you want it to push or pull all as one object. If you want a trigger that is 24x24, then you could again use either, but ffc would work best there, but actual tile dimensions are immaterial.

 

Despite the 16x16 tile limitation, sprites can now literally be any desired size. An npc sized at 6 x 49 pixels is perfectly legal, but only sprites can do this.

 

If you post some illustrations of your problem, then we can offer better solutions.




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