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Can we all agree that level 6 was hard

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#16 Timelord

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:41 PM

Wow, you guys actually played the original LoZ as children? Not surprising but I'll have to admit I feel pretty out of place here. :lol:

 

My first encounter with a Zelda game was the first 5 minutes of Link to the Past at the age of like...9 back in 2005 (yes, far after we were far into the 128-bit era). I couldn't even figure out how to get into Hyrule castle let alone make any progress until years later, so it's pretty humbling how you guys managed to make your way through the original Legend of Zelda at that age!

 

When I first played through Zelda 1 on my Collector's Edition a few years later, I didn't remember the 6th dungeon being all that hard. Save you, the difficulty of the rest of the game was so incredible for me nothing stood out as being particularly memorable aside from my hellish trek through the 8th dungeon. But oddly enough, I didn't have a hard time finding it at all. It was the 2nd or 3rd dungeon I encountered, too. :P

 

I actually find it fascinating that so many young people are interested in 8-Bit Zelda games. The fact that most of this community is under the age of thirty, is quite shocking to me.

 

I'm on the other end of the spectrum, and my memories of when Zelda was new and shining are quite clear and vivid. I played both quests, when the game was first released, and then waited for a rumoured a third game that never came to be; until 1991, with the release of Triforce of The Gods.

 

(Damn you NOE/NOA, for bastardising the title in European and American versions!)

 

I personally still prefer the FDS versions of Zelda no Densetsu, and Link no Bouken to either cartridge version, for better music, SFX, and of course, the lack of horrible translation errors; and I have a copy of the Beta dump, that I;ve played, but I didn't really notice that Wizrobes were less powerful. It seemed to me that the final cut was less difficult overall, with many different enemy combinations compared to the Beta that has been released.

 

It is clear though, that if the changes were done to make Wizrobes harder, that it wasn't a last-minute decision. The Beta dump is missing most of the second quest, and in the time that it took to develop that, I'm pretty sure that Nintendo would have noticed if changing the damage of one enemy created too high of a difficulty spike.

 

Really, the enemies that always gave me the most trouble, and reason to panic, were LikeLikes, and Darknuts; the occasional Patra fight, and Blue Lanmolas. The ZC version of the first and second quests are actually easier than the real game, in a few ways; so if you haven;t played the original title, try it both in ZC, and emulated, and see if you spot the difference.

 

We all still want to see an earlier Beta dump, with that mysterious, lost screen 'Take whichever you want', featuring either the sword, or the boomerang; if any of you recall that. :)

 

I was always curious if the original intent of the boomerang was to damage enemies, and if the sword always had beams, in earlier versions. The FDS sword beam sound, by the way, should be in ZC somewhere. It surprises me that no-one has tried to convert that over, as the electrical sound in the FDS version is what the more familiar 'trspre', sound, from Z1 is supposed to be.

 

I'm not sure if I would call Level 6 difficult, in contrast to 2nd quest levels, with walk-through walls, and red bubbles, or really too difficult in general, given that you can have the magical sword, and the blue ring, by the time you get there. I think that the flaw is that the difficulty thereafter drops off a bit, making L6 seem like it should be L8.

 

In fact, if you transposed L6, and L8, swapping the Gleeok types, and treasures, between the two, the game would be much more balanced.



#17 Alucard648

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:20 PM

In fact, if you transposed L6, and L8, swapping the Gleeok types, and treasures, between the two, the game would be much more balanced.

It`s more than just swapping entrance pointers. For instance, L6 boss (Gohma) is way too pathetic (even for L6). A three-hit version fits L6 better. If L6 becomes L8 the boss should be replaced with Mirror Wizzrobe (fits better with dungeon theme). This require placing Mirror shield somewhere in game (L7 fits better) and rewording clue from Abei to keep things true.

 

P.S. Did you know that old man`s "10th enemy has the bomb" message has an actual meaning? This is because in original LOZ game (not remake in ZC!) if you kill 10 bomb-dropping enemies in a row without getting hurt, the 10th one will have much higher chance of dropping bombs.



#18 Mero

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:27 PM

Wizzrobes are like Dodongos. Both dislike smoke.


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#19 Dawnlight

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:32 PM

I did Level 7 before Level 6. Six is a breeze with the Magical Sword.


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#20 Timelord

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:11 AM

It`s more than just swapping entrance pointers. For instance, L6 boss (Gohma) is way too pathetic (even for L6). A three-hit version fits L6 better. If L6 becomes L8 the boss should be replaced with Mirror Wizzrobe (fits better with dungeon theme). This require placing Mirror shield somewhere in game (L7 fits better) and rewording clue from Abei to keep things true.

 

P.S. Did you know that old man`s "10th enemy has the bomb" message has an actual meaning? This is because in original LOZ game (not remake in ZC!) if you kill 10 bomb-dropping enemies in a row without getting hurt, the 10th one will have much higher chance of dropping bombs.

 

No, just...no. A Mirror Wizzrobe is not a boss. It isn't even a really legitimate enemy. It ranks right up there with Magical Octorocks, Death Knights, and 'must-kill' peahats.

 

If you want to make a harder Ghoma, that's fine, for a custom quest, but I'm not talking about adding enemies, or changing enemies. Just dungeon placement, and item and boss placement for the levels, using only what is in Zelda no Densetsu.

 

I did know about the 10th enemy thing: It isn't only bombs, but rather, it is the 'good drop'. For enemies with a bomb as a good drop, that is what you will get; but it could also be a fairy, or a 5-rupee drop. The translation of the original text is a tad off too, which is what confuses people.

 

This was not included in ZC, to my knowledge, for any version. I may be wrong, and it may exist in 1.x, but certainly not 2.10 , or later.
 

--

 

As I said earlier, I tend to do L6 last as well. That's why i think that it could easily be swapped out with L8.

 

Put the Ghoma from L6 in L8, and the four-headed Gleeok in L6 as the new L8, and you really don't need to do much else. The curve of difficulty would be restored to an even climb.

 

Because you never need the magic book--I rarely collect it, because of the 'fire hurts Link; nonsense making the wand less useful, instead of more useful--or the magical key to complete the game, you can literally rush through L8, kill the boss, get your TF piece, and go to L9 with over a dozen spare keys.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 01 April 2014 - 05:22 AM.


#21 Hoff123

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:20 AM

I don't even feel like telling which game I started with, because then I feel like a stupid noob... (Hint*it's one of the newer games*Hint)

 

I've always sucked at 2d games because I grew up with 3d, but I'm learning :).


Edited by Hoff123, 01 April 2014 - 05:20 AM.


#22 Timelord

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:27 AM

I could never stand the 3D games; or 3D gaming in general. That's why stuff like ZC draws my attention. The latest Zelda game that I have played, is MC. I have LbW on my desk, waiting for me to open it, and try it out, but that is an entirely different kind of 3D, and I was used to stereoscopic games, starting with Battlezone, which i will admit I hated too, but stereoscopic games like Falsion 3-D, and JJ: Tobidase Daisakusen 2, were fantastic.

 

I did like the 3D 'Welltris' game for the Virtual Boy, but I had to make a custom harness to wear the thing, as sitting hunched over it gave me terrible neck pain, even back then. the VB never really saw stellar titles, mostly because it was so painful to use. They should have made it with a headstrap, or something like one, instead of a bleedin' tripod.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 01 April 2014 - 05:28 AM.


#23 SpikeReynolds

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:37 AM

Level 6 is hard, yes. I don't, however, think that we should swap 6 and 8. 6 and 7 would be a better fit in my opinion. Level 7 was so damn easy that after level 6, it just felt like you could straight-up plow through it. I mean, I always had the magic sword before 6, so I never had that big of a problem.



#24 Timelord

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:06 AM

How do you feel about L8, in contrast to L6 and L7?

 

I'm not saying that we need a quest that swaps them, but when the game was created, swapping the two would have been more balanced; although you can do L8 before 6 anyway, so it didn't much matter. You could call L6, L8; and L8, L6 and have similar impact. I tend to have a very odd level order in general.

 

Something like this:

HCs->Power Bracelet->White Sword->Letter->Grind->Blue Ring->Gring->Potion->1->2->4->3->5->Remaining HCs->Magical Sword->7->8->6->9.

 

Did anyone ever take the free potion instead of the HC in the 'Choose whatever you want' room?

 

Playing the game with the green tunic, and original sword, is IMO a much greater challenge than a swordless quest where the player gets HCs and rings. (I don't torment myself with that kind of thing.)

 

I love that you can have at least six hearts, the white sword, and the blue ring before entering a single level.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 01 April 2014 - 06:09 AM.


#25 nicklegends

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:16 PM

Yes, Level 6 was a nightmare. The levels to follow it weren't much to speak of by comparison. As Russ pointed out, we can blame the last-minute choice by Nintendo to double the Wizzrobes' damage and increase the blue version's HP. (Nintendo also made rupees more scarce, added enemies to rooms, and doubled Moldorms' HP in the same change (but who ever had problems with Moldorms?).)

Perhaps some of the changes they made improved the gameplay; perhaps some made it worse; but of course the game wouldn't be the same game we know and loaf without the tweaks.

#26 SpikeReynolds

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 02:27 PM

Something like this:

HCs->Power Bracelet->White Sword->Letter->Grind->Blue Ring->Gring->Potion->1->2->4->3->5->Remaining HCs->Magical Sword->7->8->6->9.

For me it was

 

HCs->White Sword->2>1->Blue Ring->3>4>More HCs->Magical Sword->5->6->7->8->Letter->9



#27 DarkFlameWolf

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:57 AM

I disagree with the mirror wizzrobe not being a boss. Now granted, in the original Zelda 1 quest where there is no such thing as 'mirrors' or a mirror shield, Zelda Classic added all those. But in a custom quest, the mirror wizzrobe can be an excellent boss for a mid-tier dungeon. Or at the very least a optional dungeon. Most Zelda bosses now have some sort of gimmick these days anyway, so the mirror wizzrobe seems to be no different.



#28 Eddy

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:41 AM

Heh heh, Level 6. Boy I had a great time when I was 4 years old.

 

So, a bit of story time. About 9 years ago, my first trek through Level 6 was an absolute disaster for the first hour. The first room with Blue Wizzrobes, that's it. After about an hour Since then, I was perfectly fine with Blue Wizzrobes, well I still had a bit of trouble, but I could manage.

 

I'd say Level 6 wasn't TOO bad, but yes, it was still pretty hard. Still surprised I could manage that level at the age of four though >_>



#29 Xenix

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:29 AM

I am so sorry, but this topic and all these responses made me think of this. :XD:



#30 KingPridenia

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 11:54 AM

I've seen that video before. Better pray for a lot of bomb drops, given Quest 1 has 11 mandatory Wizzrobe fights and that's the only weapon other than the sword that works on them. By the way, someone should script a quest Link fights through the game with his "Smashing Board" and hitting A makes him throw a useless punch.




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