Full Heart Containers vs Heart Container Pieces
#1
Posted 16 April 2010 - 06:14 PM
#2
Posted 16 April 2010 - 06:35 PM
Personally, in a bigger quest where the above isn't an issue, I'd say a mix is always nice. Make some hard side quests that yield a heart container, and easier ones that give pieces instead. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a bigger quest give out containers exclusively; it makes each one worth all the more.
#3
Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:04 PM
And for the record, I hate it when you have to buy a HCP/HC. Stupidest thing ever. (Though that was slightly off topic.)
I've been using too many parenthesis lately... (Also off topic...)
#4
Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:13 PM
#5
Posted 16 April 2010 - 08:28 PM
#6
Posted 16 April 2010 - 08:56 PM
#7
Posted 16 April 2010 - 09:36 PM
And full heart containers in like mini dungeons and side quests seems more rewarding and fair.
#8
Posted 16 April 2010 - 11:48 PM
I am in favor of full Heart Containers. But not just that. I am in favor of not focusing so much on life meters. Having a larger life meter isn't more fun if you're doing just fine already staying alive. Along with full Heart Containers, I encourage using side quests to award the player new items. ZC has so many of them that there's really no reason not to reward the player with something like a new Candle or a better Glove rather than a measly HCP.
So yeah. That should tell you what to expect from DoR. Additionally, collectible token items, but ZC isn't designed for that so you need to pull some strings if you want to do anything like that.
#9
Posted 16 April 2010 - 11:53 PM
#10
Posted 17 April 2010 - 12:17 AM
Full heart containers, and no more than 16. Otherwise, you are trying to have too many little upgrades scattered throughout the quest. I like huge and less frequent rewards over tons of tiny ones of the same kind.
Agreed. It's less rewarding to get pieces of heart compared to a full container. In fact, Spirit Tracks was the first Zelda game where I tried to get all of the Heart Containers.
#11
Posted 17 April 2010 - 01:06 AM
Yet, I wouldn't mind if a sidequest was rewared with a whole HC. That'd actually be quite nice and would give a feeling of achivement.
#12
Posted 17 April 2010 - 01:28 AM
I do not think a simple, binary evaluation is sufficient. Full hearts or pieces? It depends.
I agree with what most people are saying about a heart piece being a paltry reward for a side quest. (And completely agree that the 5 heart pieces in Twilight Princess are just annoying, especially given that managing your health is not a major factor in that game...neither are rupees...nor bombs...nor arrows...and frankly, I think that is bad quest design.)
That doesn't mean one should definitely have full heart containers and not heart pieces...even if you have a short quest, if you scatter heart pieces about your overworld in places that don't require an undue amount of time and searching to find, that can be fun. Yes less frequent, bigger rewards are good...but so are rapid, smaller rewards. I've started a (short) quest where in the first area there are 12 screens (basically every screen) where you get a heart piece for killing a somewhat difficult enemy...I want to get the player up to a certain level of health quickly and toss out some rewards while the player is getting their bearings and exploring the first area of the map. But I also have a mini-dungeon where you are rewarded with a full heart, in addition to two items, for exploring it...why not? There are so many items and upgrades in ZC you can keep the momentum going in a short quest by making use of them. In fact, collecting items is the momentum of a Zelda game...generally speaking, you make forward progress by collecting things, be it a bracelet, a hookshot, or a piece of the triforce. The job of the quest designer is to manage that process and keep the momentum going.
But I think you want to match the reward to the effort. Hiding increasingly fractured heart pieces in difficult, time-consuming locations is just not fun. (And don't get me started on collectibles...In TP, why in Zeus's name would I want spend hours looking for some fraking bugs to get a wallet upgrade to carry more rupees that I don't need anyway--If I collect something, I want to get something awesome for it.) It's also wouldn't be very rewarding to get a full heart piece for killing an Octorok...
This brings me to another important point: making the life meter (and other things like rupees, bombs, etc) matter is part of good quest design. IMO, the original LoZ is still the best game in the series because it does the best job of this. You could go almost anywhere in the game from the beginning except that you are not strong enough...your lack of hearts actually keeps you out of the mountains for a good while...I found level six long before I had enough hearts and a strong enough sword to beat it. And the fact that your health meter matters is what makes getting extra hearts so fun in that game. The fact that you actually are often short on rupees in that game is what makes finding a 100 rupee cave such a boon.
At it's best, Zelda synthesizes puzzle solving and action...it's about exploration and challenge and both should be going on at once.
Anyway, sorry for the essay, but to sum up, my thoughts on heart pieces verses hearts--and just item management in general--are to follow these rules.
1.) Use items to propel the player through the game
2.) Make the items matter; make items fill a gameplay need
3.) Match the effort to the reward
Edited by Jupiter, 17 April 2010 - 01:29 AM.
#14
Posted 17 April 2010 - 07:17 AM
#15
Posted 17 April 2010 - 01:22 PM
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