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Free Game - Toby Fox's "Deltarune"


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#1 kurt91

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 12:17 AM

Toby Fox made a "demo" of a new game, Deltarune. If you didn't like Undertale, don't bother. This game's a pseudo-sequel, as in it has many returning characters but nobody's quite figured out the timeline yet. As far as length goes, it's about the same length that it would take to play through Undertale when you already know what to do, so about two to two and a half hours.

Keep in mind that Toby's asked people to not discuss plot-stuff for at least 24 hours. Yes, the game came out earlier today.

The battle system's pretty good. It's like the original Undertale "bullet-hell" system mixed with a side-view Final Fantasy system. It's also (at least in my opinion) a good bit harder than the first game was, especially the bosses.

https://www.deltarune.com/



A few things to know.

1: The game's file name tries to hide that it's a game, stating it's a sort of survey. Suspicious, but keep in mind that Toby Fox is known for his fourth-wall crap. (I actually double-checked the game directory for extra files and stuff after beating the game, since I remember that being a stunt that a horror game pulled.)

2: Windows Defender or your anti-virus might complain about the game when you try to start it. Don't worry, it's completely harmless.

3: There's supposedly a bug with uninstalling the game, where it will take the game directory with it instead of just the game. Be careful finding a place to put it, and maybe place it one folder layer further than you normally would, just to be on the safe side. It's a self-contained .EXE program, though. No installer or anything. (I don't see why you can't just right click the game itself and hit 'delete', but whatever.)



#2 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 12:50 AM

The one screenshot I saw of it made it look like a Regular Show video game (Mordecai and Rigby).



#3 Avaro

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 08:40 AM

I played it 3 hours after release and was pleasantly surprised I'm suddenly playing Undertale 2.

 

For those concerned, the game is legit and safe lol. And fun :P

 

I think what the author was going for was getting people to go into it blind, not knowing wether it's a small thing, a real game or how long it is. So all of that stuff is technically a spoiler, but eh. Also it's not a demo, it's a self-contained episode.


Edited by Avataro, 01 November 2018 - 02:25 PM.


#4 Moosh

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 01:05 PM

Just finished watching a playthrough. I won't ever play this or the original because I don't think these games have merit as games and are better enjoyed as just a story. Once again the presence of gameplay is just a flourish on top of it all and the game isn't long or deep enough to flesh out its own ideas.

 

I think overall I like Deltarune more than the original Undertale, but man do I feel let down by the ending once again. Toby Fox does not know how to end his stories right.


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#5 Rambly

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 08:07 PM



Just finished watching a playthrough. I won't ever play this or the original because I don't think these games have merit as games and are better enjoyed as just a story. Once again the presence of gameplay is just a flourish on top of it all and the game isn't long or deep enough to flesh out its own ideas.

 

I think overall I like Deltarune more than the original Undertale, but man do I feel let down by the ending once again. Toby Fox does not know how to end his stories right.

I haven't played Deltarune, but the wording here implies that the ending to Undertale wasn't all that satisfying for you either.  I've always had reservations about how Undertale resolves but I've never been able to articulate them, so I'd be super, super fascinated to hear your reasoning as to why.  I think it'd help me understand my own issues with the ending more.  (To be clear: What Undertale does right I absolutely adore.  The lesson Undertale is trying to teach is a good one, most of the emotionally resonant moments are "directed" really well, and, of course, the music is outstanding.  I am, overall, a really big Undertale fan -- but it's not above criticism or reproach.  I have fuckin' criticisms of like, the Zelda games I fangirl over the most like an idiot and Banjo-Tooie and Mario and whatever other Canonized Millennial Works exist.)

 

I'm skeptical that there needed to be a sequel to Undertale in the first place, so I'm not super excited about Deltarune.  Toby Fox made a show about how he'd rather do something that wasn't necessarily a sequel, and I thought that was the right thing to do -- Undertale is one of the few pieces of media where I genuinely feel like it'd be a little sacrilegious to subject it to sequelitis.  I'm not saying a sequel to Undertale shouldn't exist, and I really don't want to dampen anyone's enthusiasm.  I'm just saying I'm skeptical that Toby Fox could say anything in Deltarune that adds to Undertale's message, because Undertale was so immaculately wrapped up with very few loose threads.  And even if those few loose threads needed to be explored, I don't necessarily know that Toby needed to be the one to explore them.

 

That said, I'll probably play Deltarune once the inevitable hype train dies down.  I did that with Undertale and probably loved it all the more for it, evaluating it as a piece of media in its own right and not as The Big New Thing.  I imagine I'll be able to evaluate Deltarune a little more critically if I'm not backlashing against it like a big dummy.



#6 kurt91

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 08:46 PM

I think that the biggest thing that I had against Undertale was just how hypocritical it could be.

 

You spend the entire game having to deal with monsters trying their damnedest to kill you. You're expected to take the high road and be a pacifist throughout the entire thing, using the Spare system to avoid killing any of them. Let's say that the disconnect between player and character wasn't there, and you were genuinely having to fight for your life, feeling the pain of every attack that you were struck with. Knowing that the risk of death is seriously there, you're looked down on for self-defense, while the monsters that attack and try to kill you get off with no repercussion?

 

Okay, so you can argue that the Save system negates justified self-defense, so you would still have no risk of permanent death while the monsters don't have that sort of safety net. Here's the problem with that logic. How do the Save Points work? Determination. You're able to use the Save Points to revive yourself and rewind any deaths through sheer will power. Now for my rebuttal.

 

What is it that makes Frisk so special? The game goes out of its way to describe the differences between a Monster Soul and a Human Soul, and states that Humans in general are able to use Determination, and thus are able to use the Save Points. Now, how many children have died prior to Frisk's appearance? Six. That's six human CHILDREN who were killed and did not come back. That means that they suffered so many excruciatingly painful deaths that they couldn't bring themselves to try again. Six different children willingly chose permanent death to end the constant torment and suffering that was inflicted on them. So, psychological and physical torture towards children is okay and easily forgivable, on six different occasions?!

 

On top of that, the story flat-out states that monsters don't age unless they have children, so they're functionally immortal as far as natural causes or old-age. Humans don't have that advantage. For each child that fell into the Underground, all the monsters would have to do is simply wait for them to die naturally. Toriel had the right idea at the very beginning. Treat the child well throughout their lives. Adopt them and raise them as your own. When they die eventually, wouldn't they willingly allow the monsters to keep their Soul to eventually break the barrier?

 

I can understand the Genocide route going the way that it does. I cannot understand the way the game treats a Pacifist and Neutral route, and the way that they admonish the player for even a single self-defense killing. The game should treat all of the characters by the same standards.

 

Playing Deltarune, it goes a little way towards fixing that. The plot gave the enemies a reason to attack the player, and it wasn't quite as preachy about the Spare system as Undertale was. Yeah, it was slightly biased between the two characters that each wanted to take different approaches, but not enough that it seemed hypocritical like I explained earlier.


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#7 Anthus

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 09:12 PM

I never played Undertale, but I do like the story, and all that. I have seen pretty much all there is to see about it on YouTube, but I'm going to give this a shot since it is free.

 

I'd like to play Undertale eventually, I'm just less inclined cause I know what happens etc. But I'll give this a shot blind.



#8 Moosh

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 09:14 AM

I haven't played Deltarune, but the wording here implies that the ending to Undertale wasn't all that satisfying for you either.  I've always had reservations about how Undertale resolves but I've never been able to articulate them, so I'd be super, super fascinated to hear your reasoning as to why.  I think it'd help me understand my own issues with the ending more.  (To be clear: What Undertale does right I absolutely adore.  The lesson Undertale is trying to teach is a good one, most of the emotionally resonant moments are "directed" really well, and, of course, the music is outstanding.  I am, overall, a really big Undertale fan -- but it's not above criticism or reproach.  I have fuckin' criticisms of like, the Zelda games I fangirl over the most like an idiot and Banjo-Tooie and Mario and whatever other Canonized Millennial Works exist.)

Oh boy, so my problems with Undertale's ending...


Edited by Moosh, 02 November 2018 - 09:19 AM.

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#9 Haylee

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:40 AM

I ended up watching a stream of it, not because I don't want to play it, but rather, I don't feel like doing so (Mix of life stuff and other games on my bucket list).

 

Thoughts



#10 Moosh

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:07 PM

I ended up watching a stream of it, not because I don't want to play it, but rather, I don't feel like doing so (Mix of life stuff and other games on my bucket list).

 

Thoughts

Let's spoil some spoilers with the addition of yet more spoilers


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#11 Saffith

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:19 PM

You spend the entire game having to deal with monsters trying their damnedest to kill you. You're expected to take the high road and be a pacifist throughout the entire thing, using the Spare system to avoid killing any of them. Let's say that the disconnect between player and character wasn't there, and you were genuinely having to fight for your life, feeling the pain of every attack that you were struck with. Knowing that the risk of death is seriously there, you're looked down on for self-defense, while the monsters that attack and try to kill you get off with no repercussion?

My understanding was that most of the monsters weren't malicious. They just tried to get you to eat your vegetables by throwing them at you, or spraying lava everywhere was just something they couldn't help, or they told jokes so bad it hurt your soul. The few who were really out to get you weren't so easily dissuaded.

Either way, and even setting aside anything about saving and such, I'd argue that you can't really justify killing them in self-defense. Being in danger isn't sufficient; it also requires a lack of better options. Killing monsters isn't just unnecessary, it's generally not even much easier than sparing them. You can't really argue that killing a monster in self-defense was justified when you could just as easily have complimented its hat to make it go away.

As for applying that to real life... I'm not sure I can do that without getting into controversial political stuff (I have something specific in mind), so I'm just gonna leave it.
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#12 Deedee

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 02:13 PM

Oh boy, so my problems with Undertale's ending...

So, I actually came across an analysis that goes in depth into said character, and it really changed my mind from my original point (which is the same as yours (trying to be really vague here so I don't have to spoiler this)). I think someone on Pure posted this, but here it is anyways: https://determinator...working-on-this



#13 Haylee

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 03:13 PM

Let's spoil some spoilers with the addition of yet more spoilers

Yeesh



#14 Anthus

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 06:33 PM

So I played this for about two hours, and I like the battle system. I've been sparing everything as well, and

 

From what I can see it is not a continuation of Undertale's story. It seems to have new characters, and be set in a different place completely. So for those worried about this potentially ruining Undertale's impact, you can breath easy, so far, as it seems to be telling a completely new story, and expanding upon the battle mechanics introduced before, and for that, it's a good sequel.

 

Finally, is it just me, or is this game really easy? I've avoided every projectile on the OW areas where stuff comes at you, and have only taken damage at all a handful of times. I have not had to heal at all either. This is not a problem for me, I'm just wondering if others find it easy. For reference, I just made it to



#15 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 08:40 PM

So, I actually came across an analysis that goes in depth into said character, and it really changed my mind from my original point (which is the same as yours (trying to be really vague here so I don't have to spoiler this)). I think someone on Pure posted this, but here it is anyways: https://determinator...working-on-this

There's seemingly a lot of broken links on there (text that looks like it should be a hyperlink, aren't)




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