Jump to content

Photo

The "other" Sonic Genesis games


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Hergiswi

Hergiswi

    don't look for me, i'm just a story you've been told

  • Members
  • Real Name:chris
  • Location:house

Posted 22 May 2020 - 11:19 PM

I've always loved the classic Sonic games and I'm starting to play through Sonic CD (JP) and Knuckles Chaotix for the Sega CD and 32X respectively. Have any of you ever played these? The music is fire and the colors/aesthetics are pretty incredible. Gameplay is super weird though if you're used to the main Sonic games.



#2 Russ

Russ

    Caelan, the Encouraging

  • Administrators
  • Location:Washington

Posted 22 May 2020 - 11:47 PM

Sonic CD is, in my opinion, better than the Genesis games, with one big caveat. The physics in the Sega CD version are terrible. The remake by Christian Whitehead that lets you use Genesis physics takes it from a cool experiment to a fantastic game. It's different, for sure, but I like the focus on exploration of stages while still keeping the speed element. Bosses aren't that great though, sadly.



#3 The Satellite

The Satellite

    May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce.

  • Members
  • Real Name:Michael
  • Pronouns:He / Him

Posted 23 May 2020 - 12:20 AM

I have given Sonic CD multiple chances (using the Steam remake even) and I just cannot enjoy it as much as any of the main series Genesis games. Yes. I like Sonic 1 more than this game... not that I think that's a particularly damning statement, Sonic 1 is damn good, the sequels are better but it's still good. Its only flaw isn't even that it doesn't have a spin dash, it's... Labyrinth Zone.

 

All four acts of it.

 

... back to Sonic CD, I mean, the soundtracks are decent I guess, but they also don't hit me in the same way as the Genesis games' do. As far as the gameplay, I don't know, if I try to play it like a Sonic game, it's basic and boring, if I try to play it the "intended" way, it's obnoxious and frustrating. There's no middle ground here, the only "exploration" I want in a Sonic game is finding all the different paths through a level, I don't want to hunt down projectors and shit just to get the true ending. I just... never enjoy this game. The special stages are cool though, especially the Japanese soundtrack's tune for it.

 

Never played Knuckles' Chaotix. I've watched SomecallmeJohnny's review and it doesn't seem like something I'd enjoy, although at the same time part of me still wants to try it to formulate my own opinion... but said review isn't exactly strongly nudging me in the direction of trying it.

 

As far as non-main-series Genesis Sonic games go everybody loves Sonic Spinball oh god make it stop

 

Actually while I never got far in Spinball, I remember at least enjoying what I played of it. Then there's Sonic 3D Blast which I remember being actually pretty okay, nothing amazing but not bad either, just a tad repetitive. Had a legitimately good soundtrack too.



#4 Nicholas Steel

Nicholas Steel

    Hero of Time

  • Members
  • Location:Australia

Posted 23 May 2020 - 02:46 AM

My first experience with Sonic CD was the copy included with Sonic Gems+ for PC... but apparently that was a fever dream according to the internet because I can't find evidence of other people playing a PC copy before the recent re-releases of the game. I guess it's plausible the games on Sonic Gems+ piqued my curiosity of other games in the series and I ended up emulating Sonic CD.



#5 The Satellite

The Satellite

    May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce.

  • Members
  • Real Name:Michael
  • Pronouns:He / Him

Posted 23 May 2020 - 11:03 PM

Sonic CD 100% existed on PC. And I mean, actual 90s DOS PC, not the Steam version. I unfortunately no longer seem to have the case to prove it, but it definitely existed because I owned it. Never really played it that much, partially because I think the disc ended up scratched to hell in a short amount of time. But it existed. I can at least tell you I distinctly remember a picture of this boss on the back cover.



#6 kurt91

kurt91

    Follower of Destiny

  • Members
  • Real Name:Kurtis
  • Location:Eastern Washington University

Posted 26 May 2020 - 08:53 AM

I used to have the PC version back in the 90's. My PC actually couldn't run it at full speed back then, so I used to think that Sonic games were apparently very similar to Mario, just with freaking massive levels to explore and play around in. Later on, I got Sonic 3 & Knuckles for PC, and used my mother's PC instead of my father's. It ran correctly at that point, and it took quite a bit of getting used to how the game was supposed to play.



#7 Anthus

Anthus

    Lord of Liquids

  • Members
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 26 May 2020 - 03:39 PM

I have played, and finished Sonic CD (Steam version). I do not like it as much as the Genesis games, but I would put it above Sonic 1.

 

The level design is too cluttered and chaotic. Some levels like Wacky Work Bench are just down right obnoxious to navigate. If you just want to play through the levels like a normal game, I agree with TS, it feels boring. I don't feel like I'm advancing, I feel like I'm fighting the level design, and brute forcing with every turn. I just want the levels to be over, and I don't think that's the intention. I also don't like the "intended way" either. I don't like searching for things in games, like at all. It does not work with Sonic's game play imo. I do like the sound track though, both versions.

 

I never played Knuckles' Chaotix, but from what I've seen of it, I think that's okay.

 

I don't have a very high opinion of 3D Blast either. Again, boring stages, with searching for stuff, but this time it is required to progress. No speed, virtually no platforming, ugly pre-rendered graphics, and just... not a fun Sonic game, in my opinion. And it's not even 3D. :P



#8 Lüt

Lüt

    Germanize

  • Members
  • Real Name:Steve
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 11 June 2020 - 06:51 AM

The level design is too cluttered and chaotic.

Well what do you expect from levels called "Collision Chaos"?

 

Anyway, CD was my favorite, but it was also the only one I played to any significant degree. My brother had 1 and 2, but he only lived with me a few years, so I never played them much for comparison. I remember thinking CD was a step up over 1 at least. I liked the open exploration, along with the alternate versions of the levels. I found they made the game very replayable, as did the gradually-unlockable secret zones. Basically, I spent a lot of time with this game.

 

A few months ago, I finally ripped my CD ISO and loaded it in an emulator. I guess you could say I've "lost it." Couldn't get much further than the third sets of levels after a few days. Doubt I'll spend much time getting good at it again, but it was fun back in the day.


  • Anthus and Dark Ice Dragon like this

#9 Mani Kanina

Mani Kanina

    Rabbits!

  • Members

Posted 14 June 2020 - 08:43 AM

My hot take has always been, and still is, that the genesis era sonic games were never that good. I can respect sonic 1 a lot, it let's you go fast somewhat, but it know when to slow down and offer platforming challenges. I still don't think it has aged well. Sonic 3 looks pretty impressive, and the first level starts off great with a huge amount of secrets and depth to the level..., but then it's kinda downhill from there.

The core issue with a lot of them is that the games systems, and often times the level design too, encourages moving fast..., but they are paradoxically not very well designed for that? Camera is centered around the player character, rather than moving the character to the edge of the screen opposite of the way you're moving. Meaning you have less than half of the screen showing things in front of you while moving fast. A lot of enemies and obstacles turn into cheap hits that you need to memories. I can totally see returning players having fun with these games after they know where all the enemies are in advance..., but to me they always felt cheap and bad.

Personally I need to stick up for Sonic Rush 1&2, I don't think they are *amazing* games, they still have a fair amount of meh level design. But the mechanics offers solutions to enemies in front of you that you can't see: As long as you're boosting, you're probably killing them before they hit you. If you're not boosting? Well you're moving slower as a result so it gives a bit more time at least. I enjoyed these two games more than I enjoyed the whole of the genesis titles.

Also, I'd recommend Freedom Planet. People call it a sonic clone, but uh, hey, at least it took the time to look at serious main stay issues of the sonic series and try to fix them. Enemies don't hurt you unless they are actively using an attack, meaning contact damage does generally not exist, removing a huuuuuge amount of cheap hits. The boss fights felt a lot more inspired too, not gonna lie.



#10 Timelord

Timelord

    The Timelord

  • Banned
  • Location:Prydon Academy

Posted 14 June 2020 - 12:49 PM

I vote for SoMari for the Famicom; and for Zippy the Porcupine for the Atari 2600.

 

 


  • Anthus likes this

#11 Hergiswi

Hergiswi

    don't look for me, i'm just a story you've been told

  • Members
  • Real Name:chris
  • Location:house

Posted 01 July 2020 - 11:52 PM

Sonic CD is, in my opinion, better than the Genesis games, with one big caveat. The physics in the Sega CD version are terrible. The remake by Christian Whitehead that lets you use Genesis physics takes it from a cool experiment to a fantastic game. It's different, for sure, but I like the focus on exploration of stages while still keeping the speed element. Bosses aren't that great though, sadly.

 

I finished CD this morning (opting for the Christian Whitehead version instead of emulating) and I would say I agree. I haven't actually played it with the Genesis physics yet but I would imagine it would make it slightly less infuriating to time travel.

 

 


... back to Sonic CD, I mean, the soundtracks are decent I guess, but they also don't hit me in the same way as the Genesis games' do. As far as the gameplay, I don't know, if I try to play it like a Sonic game, it's basic and boring, if I try to play it the "intended" way, it's obnoxious and frustrating. There's no middle ground here, the only "exploration" I want in a Sonic game is finding all the different paths through a level, I don't want to hunt down projectors and shit just to get the true ending. I just... never enjoy this game. The special stages are cool though, especially the Japanese soundtrack's tune for it.

 

Never played Knuckles' Chaotix. I've watched SomecallmeJohnny's review and it doesn't seem like something I'd enjoy, although at the same time part of me still wants to try it to formulate my own opinion... but said review isn't exactly strongly nudging me in the direction of trying it.

 

As far as non-main-series Genesis Sonic games go everybody loves Sonic Spinball oh god make it stop

 

Actually while I never got far in Spinball, I remember at least enjoying what I played of it. Then there's Sonic 3D Blast which I remember being actually pretty okay, nothing amazing but not bad either, just a tad repetitive. Had a legitimately good soundtrack too.

 

1. I think the Japanese soundtrack is spectular; the American soundtrack drives me nuts though. It's too bad because the composer also did the music for Ecco the Dolphin. I love the soundtrack for different reasons than I love S3&K, and those two for different reasons than I love S1&2. Different styles but all amazing.

2. Chaotix isn't that great honestly. I'm playing it after I watched a pretty scathing review of it, and while I don't think it's as bad as the video made it out to be, it's relatively barren and repetitive from what I can tell. Again, great music though.

3. I see your Sonic Spinball options menu music and raise you the music from Sonic Eraser.

4. I need to play 3D Blast; I kind of forgot about it honestly. I'll add it to my list.

 

I used to have the PC version back in the 90's. My PC actually couldn't run it at full speed back then, so I used to think that Sonic games were apparently very similar to Mario, just with freaking massive levels to explore and play around in. Later on, I got Sonic 3 & Knuckles for PC, and used my mother's PC instead of my father's. It ran correctly at that point, and it took quite a bit of getting used to how the game was supposed to play.

 

That's actually hilarious. I can't imagine the initial disappointment of not understanding the hype of Sonic games and then later realizing it was hardware issues.

 

I have played, and finished Sonic CD (Steam version). I do not like it as much as the Genesis games, but I would put it above Sonic 1.

 

The level design is too cluttered and chaotic. Some levels like Wacky Work Bench are just down right obnoxious to navigate. If you just want to play through the levels like a normal game, I agree with TS, it feels boring. I don't feel like I'm advancing, I feel like I'm fighting the level design, and brute forcing with every turn. I just want the levels to be over, and I don't think that's the intention. I also don't like the "intended way" either. I don't like searching for things in games, like at all. It does not work with Sonic's game play imo. I do like the sound track though, both versions.

 

I never played Knuckles' Chaotix, but from what I've seen of it, I think that's okay.

 

I don't have a very high opinion of 3D Blast either. Again, boring stages, with searching for stuff, but this time it is required to progress. No speed, virtually no platforming, ugly pre-rendered graphics, and just... not a fun Sonic game, in my opinion. And it's not even 3D. :P

 

Bro Wacky Workbench drove me insane, along with Metallic Madness Past. Granted they're near the end of the game so I expect some challenge, but I'm thinking more Metropolis or Death Egg type challenge, not insane level physics and constant barrage of obstacles type challenge.

 

Well what do you expect from levels called "Collision Chaos"?

 

Anyway, CD was my favorite, but it was also the only one I played to any significant degree. My brother had 1 and 2, but he only lived with me a few years, so I never played them much for comparison. I remember thinking CD was a step up over 1 at least. I liked the open exploration, along with the alternate versions of the levels. I found they made the game very replayable, as did the gradually-unlockable secret zones. Basically, I spent a lot of time with this game.

 

A few months ago, I finally ripped my CD ISO and loaded it in an emulator. I guess you could say I've "lost it." Couldn't get much further than the third sets of levels after a few days. Doubt I'll spend much time getting good at it again, but it was fun back in the day.

 

I want to replay it and see what kind of replayability there is for me. I didn't get most of the time stones and I don't think I made a single good future, so I know I'm at least missing out of some hefty chunks of the game in that regard.

 

My hot take has always been, and still is, that the genesis era sonic games were never that good. I can respect sonic 1 a lot, it let's you go fast somewhat, but it know when to slow down and offer platforming challenges. I still don't think it has aged well. Sonic 3 looks pretty impressive, and the first level starts off great with a huge amount of secrets and depth to the level..., but then it's kinda downhill from there.

The core issue with a lot of them is that the games systems, and often times the level design too, encourages moving fast..., but they are paradoxically not very well designed for that? Camera is centered around the player character, rather than moving the character to the edge of the screen opposite of the way you're moving. Meaning you have less than half of the screen showing things in front of you while moving fast. A lot of enemies and obstacles turn into cheap hits that you need to memories. I can totally see returning players having fun with these games after they know where all the enemies are in advance..., but to me they always felt cheap and bad.

Personally I need to stick up for Sonic Rush 1&2, I don't think they are *amazing* games, they still have a fair amount of meh level design. But the mechanics offers solutions to enemies in front of you that you can't see: As long as you're boosting, you're probably killing them before they hit you. If you're not boosting? Well you're moving slower as a result so it gives a bit more time at least. I enjoyed these two games more than I enjoyed the whole of the genesis titles.

Also, I'd recommend Freedom Planet. People call it a sonic clone, but uh, hey, at least it took the time to look at serious main stay issues of the sonic series and try to fix them. Enemies don't hurt you unless they are actively using an attack, meaning contact damage does generally not exist, removing a huuuuuge amount of cheap hits. The boss fights felt a lot more inspired too, not gonna lie.

 

Well, obviously I don't agree with you, but I can see where you're coming from to a certain extent. I'll defend the music until I die, but I can see how some gameplay aspects aren't for everyone, especially some of the enemy/obstacle placement. Funny you mention Freedom Planet though, I downloaded that this morning and I'm hoping to play it within the next few weeks. I do keep hearing "Sonic Clone" thrown around, but it seems to me like it's more of an homage than a ripoff. I've been told that it has phenomenal music and a great play style, so I'm excited to see what it has in store.

 

I vote for SoMari for the Famicom; and for Zippy the Porcupine for the Atari 2600.

 

 

These are both hilarious and hurt my feelings simultaneously.


  • Anthus likes this

#12 FieryBirdyThing

FieryBirdyThing

    Junior

  • Members
  • Location:UK

Posted 01 October 2020 - 04:53 PM

I've only played Sonic CD once, on the Sonic Gems Collection, and I can't say I was immediately impressed. However, that could've been because I was trying to play it like a typical Sonic game, so maybe I need to take a moment to figure it out properly first. Even then, I'm in no hurry to try it again.

 

I actually quite enjoy both Sonic Spinball and Sonic 3D. While Spinball isn't quite what I was originally expecting, I do have a good time playing it. I agree that Sonic 3D does have its faults, but I can often brush them aside and just enjoy the game (I even have a soft spot for the pre-rendered graphics).

 

However, I have not played Knuckles Chaotix. I wouldn't mind trying it if I ever got the chance, though.

 

Also, I'd recommend Freedom Planet. People call it a sonic clone, but uh, hey, at least it took the time to look at serious main stay issues of the sonic series and try to fix them. Enemies don't hurt you unless they are actively using an attack, meaning contact damage does generally not exist, removing a huuuuuge amount of cheap hits. The boss fights felt a lot more inspired too, not gonna lie.

I love Freedom Planet! I'd even go as far as to say it has enough to take it beyond being a 'Sonic clone'. It's such a great game!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users