63 replies to this topic

[Shane]

omg foot quest

 

gay foot quest

Edited by Shane, 14 January 2023 - 06:52 PM.

[Magi_Hero]

they always ask who is gay but never how is gay

[Twilight Knight]

im gay

 

[Anthus]

tbh I think ZC is gay .

[Jared]

In a quest I never released, Link was going to be gay and so was his childhood friend. He was also a self-proclaimed knight. I thought it was pretty interesting.

[Avaro]

didn't the depths of malice by russ have a gay protagonist?

[Lordkronos]

Stellar Seas Has a Realy Cute Gay Protagonist but Im not Sure if they both come Together but Yeah I Hope They made it and So Yeah its Possible to have them In ZC

[Magi_Hero]

spoilers

[DarkFlameWolf]

Does being gay have any relevance to the game plot/narrative/progression? Or will it play out exactly like almost every other Zelda Classic quest out there? If the latter, is it really needed to add value to the quest? I'm coming from a writer perspective here. Got no issue with gay, les, trans, Apache helicopter, but if it serves no bearing on the quest directly, you may need to reevaluate the real reasons why you want it in - because virtue signaling is a bit cringe these days, but if you ensure that character narrative decisions are impacted and influenced by who they are and the relationships they make (which, last I checked, is hard to convey in a Zelda Classic quest given engine limitations), then it'll be that much more integral to the overall gameplay experience. Though, you may be better off with an RPGMaker sort of engine to tell that sort of story rather than the ZC engine.

[Shane]

Does being gay have any relevance to the game plot/narrative/progression? Or will it play out exactly like almost every other Zelda Classic quest out there? If the latter, is it really needed to add value to the quest? I'm coming from a writer perspective here. Got no issue with gay, les, trans, Apache helicopter, but if it serves no bearing on the quest directly, you may need to reevaluate the real reasons why you want it in - because virtue signaling is a bit cringe these days, but if you ensure that character narrative decisions are impacted and influenced by who they are and the relationships they make (which, last I checked, is hard to convey in a Zelda Classic quest given engine limitations), then it'll be that much more integral to the overall gameplay experience. Though, you may be better off with an RPGMaker sort of engine to tell that sort of story rather than the ZC engine.

LGBT people aren't just a storytelling device, they're real people that want to be seen and heard. They don't have to be integral to the story in order to exist. For ages we've seen straight couples planted as generic background characters that aren't shy of being lovey-dovey, so what's wrong with changing it up? If it's okay for a straight couple to stand by the fountain and be filler NPCs, then there's nothing wrong with any other orientation filling that role instead. They do not have to walk, talk and breathe gay as their main personality trait to be justified into a story.

 

So is it really virtue signalling or are people just super passionate to add in characters that resonate with them in their worlds? Because I'm betting the latter!

 

But yeah, I disagree with this very limiting view on LGBT representation. I think you are overthinking a simple concept that doesn't need any sort of justification for something like ZC. What's the worst that's going to happen, some boomer going to rate your quest a 2 because it's pushing a "woke agenda"? 

Edited by Shane, 05 February 2023 - 06:09 AM.

[Matthew]

To me, the existence of an LGBT character needs no more justification than any other arbitrary design decision. Gay characters should be allowed to exist without special narrative significance. Otherwise, I'd be inclined to extend the logic backwards and ask, why have straight characters at all? Why even bother depicting relationships, at that rate?

 

In the context of ZC, we have untold amounts of magic and monsters. I don't think that gay characters are so implausible as to yank one out of an experience. Certainly, I don't think it's "virtue signaling" to have a male NPC who mentions his husband, any more than it would be if he mentioned his wife.

[Russ]

Okay, so now that this thread is actually having serious discussion again, I feel like I gotta come back to it again and set the record straight (set the record gay?) since my response from over 10 years ago has aged like milk.
 
The short answer is I agree with Shane and Matthew. You don't need a reason to have an LGBT character, any more than you need a reason for... any character, really. The whole mentality comes from a subconscious heteronormativity, where we assume being straight is the "normal" option, and any deviation from that needs to be justified. To a certain extent, DFW has a point. If you have a gay character just to try to draw attention to it as means of virtue signaling, okay yeah, that's probably not the way to do it. But I don't think there's anything wrong with having random gay/trans/whatever NPCs. Or protagonists, for that matter. Which, as has been mentioned, I've had several. Lucas from Forbidden Ascent, Kell and Riggs from Depths of Malice, Miles from Yuurand (technically a joint Aevin/Russ character I guess?), and Torrin from Stellar Seas all spring to mind (say nothing of several ambiguously gay Yuurand characters). Aside from my own quests, Aevin's works (Reikon especially) also have LGBT characters in them. I'm not aware of any other quests with major LGBT characters, but I'm guessing there likely are some that have escaped my notice.

That does kind of highlight a point though. There's definitely still a bias in questmaking towards shying away from the topic altogether, which is somewhat odd to me given that, when I polled PureZC a few years ago, almost half the members were LGBT. So I guess what I'm trying to say is come on people, show some representation!

 

but if you ensure that character narrative decisions are impacted and influenced by who they are and the relationships they make (which, last I checked, is hard to convey in a Zelda Classic quest given engine limitations), then it'll be that much more integral to the overall gameplay experience. Though, you may be better off with an RPGMaker sort of engine to tell that sort of story rather than the ZC engine.

I do wanna draw attention to this, because I think you're probably a bit out of the loop with what ZC's engine limitations actually are. There's plenty of ZC quests that do just that already.

But yeah, I disagree with this very limiting view on LGBT representation. I think you are overthinking a simple concept that doesn't need any sort of justification for something like ZC. What's the worst that's going to happen, some boomer going to rate your quest a 2 because it's pushing a "woke agenda"? 

Also wanted to respond to this to say we definitely need a rating of ZC's most woke quests. Someone should get on this at once.

[nicklegends]

we definitely need a rating of ZC's most woke quests. Someone should get on this at once

Wasn't there a Game Boy game about Link getting woke?

[Mitchfork]

Wasn't there a Game Boy game about Link getting woke?

and just like the REAL LIFE WOKE LEFT, Link loots local businesses for their shovels and bows

 

Have you ever considered that THIEF backwards spells ANTIFA

Edited by Mitchfork, 06 February 2023 - 11:33 PM.

[Aslion]

Does being gay have any relevance to the game plot/narrative/progression? Or will it play out exactly like almost every other Zelda Classic quest out there? If the latter, is it really needed to add value to the quest? I'm coming from a writer perspective here. Got no issue with gay, les, trans, Apache helicopter, but if it serves no bearing on the quest directly, you may need to reevaluate the real reasons why you want it in - because virtue signaling is a bit cringe these days, but if you ensure that character narrative decisions are impacted and influenced by who they are and the relationships they make (which, last I checked, is hard to convey in a Zelda Classic quest given engine limitations), then it'll be that much more integral to the overall gameplay experience. Though, you may be better off with an RPGMaker sort of engine to tell that sort of story rather than the ZC engine.

shut up nerd