17 replies to this topic

[Nightmare]

Unless you're running 1.92 B 182/3 or running DOSBox, New Quest 2003 is officially dead in 2.53.  The structural damage caught up and it just doesn't work, konks out in the first mini-dungeon.

 

Knew this day was coming.  Sorry Gleeok and other purists.

 

The 2013 and Rebuilt are your options for this quest going forward in 2.53.  Maybe if we get a special build or DOSBox working this will be functional again.

 

-James

[Ryunaker]

I just wanted to know if you were aware of the following:
 

We would appreciate bug reports on any of the following:

• Playing quests made in 1.92, 2.10, 2.50.x and reporting any compatibility bugs.

They may be willing to work with you on fixing the damage.  (Unless you've already tried this.)

[Nightmare]

I just wanted to know if you were aware of the following:
 

We would appreciate bug reports on any of the following:

• Playing quests made in 1.92, 2.10, 2.50.x and reporting any compatibility bugs.

They may be willing to work with you on fixing the damage.  (Unless you've already tried this.)

 

Are you "even on ZC development staff"?  Most of the staff is well aware of what I'm testing and 1.02 compatibility is not on the list at the current moment.  I'd consider this message rather trollish if you're not.

 

-James

Edited by Nightmare, 29 August 2017 - 03:25 PM.

[strike]

The guy is just trying to be helpful : P No reason to call him a troll. 

[TheRock]

Would it be possible to make a version to work in 2.5.3? I'm sure it's possible...

[Nightmare]

The guy is just trying to be helpful : P No reason to call him a troll. 

I've put a lot of time into the backwards compatibility over the years, trying to get everything to work as smoothly as possible, updating versions, making sure 2.53 and DOSBox have a chance of working, etc.  Too many hours to count honestly.  I have also been in touch with the AGN Devs trying to get this to work.  If he's not a dev or using an alt, it's kinda like rent-a-modding, on something I've put hundreds of hours into.  Sorry if I'm short, but I found it disrespectful, and until 1.00+ compatibility is put in, it really can't be fixed without me directly saving it as in 2.50+,

 

 

Would it be possible to make a version to work in 2.5.3? I'm sure it's possible...

I updated New Quest 2013 if you're interested in that to an "as is" version and put the 1.92 B 182/3 version back up so it will work in that version.  I have no plans to convert the (1.02 to 1.84) or 2003 to 2.53, but I will test the new versions to try our best to get it compatible.

 

-James

Edited by Nightmare, 29 August 2017 - 06:31 PM.

[Timelord]

I just wanted to know if you were aware of the following:
 
We would appreciate bug reports on any of the following:

• Playing quests made in 1.92, 2.10, 2.50.x and reporting any compatibility bugs.

They may be willing to work with you on fixing the damage.  (Unless you've already tried this.)

 
This falls into the realm of 'may be possible for 2.60+'. The lack of available source code for 1.84 is a roadblock, and the format of quests changed extensively since the 1.xx era. It may fall under the header of 'limited support', as a full conversion, even from 1.90 quests, to modern formats can introduce issues in the quests.
 
There has been some attempt to allow loading pre-1.90 quests in modern ZC, but it's hard to say what the end-result may be, or if it makes the cut for a release version. 1.84 and earlier had their own quest encryption format, too.
 
I did the barest bit of initial preparation work for a 1.xx Import function. if you want to compare the routines (to the 2.50.x branch, or the master branch on GitHub), here, have fun:
 

Spoiler

//The structs for size checking. Will likely need to pad all extra data with 0s.


typedef struct zquestheader150 {
 char  id_str[31];
 short zelda_version;
 short internal;
 byte  quest_number;
 byte  rules[2];
 char  map_count;
 char  str_count;
 byte  data_flags[ZQ_MAXDATA];
 char  foo[3]; // unused
 char  version[9];
 char  title[65];
 char  author[65];
 short pwdkey;
 char  password[30];
};

typedef struct MsgStr150 {
 char s[73];
 byte d1,d2,d3;
// 76 bytes total
};


typedef struct dmap150 {
 byte map;
 byte level;
 char xoff;
 byte compass;
 byte color;
 byte midi;
 byte cont;
 byte type;
 byte grid[8];
// 16 bytes total
};


typedef struct miscQdata150 {
 shoptype shop[16];
 infotype info[16];
 warpring warp[8];
 byte     foo[8*18];
 windwarp wind[9];      // destination of whirlwind for each level
 byte     triforce[8];  // positions of triforce pieces on subscreen
 zcolors  colors;
 byte     misc[32];
};


typedef struct mapscr150{
// 48-byte header
  byte valid,guy,str,room,        item,catchall,warptype,flags;
  byte warpx,warpy,stairx,stairy, itemx,itemy,color,enemyflags;
  byte door[4], warpdmap,warpscr,exitdir,flags2;
  byte enemy[10],pattern, warptype2,warpx2,warpy2,path[4];
  byte warpscr2,warpdmap2;
  word under;
  byte unused_data[2];
// 352 bytes of screen data
  word data[16*11];
// 400 bytes total
};

typedef struct combo150 {
  word tile;
  byte flip;
  byte walk;
  byte type;
  byte attr;
  word e[5];
};


typedef struct music150 {
 char title[20];
 long start;
 long loop_start;
 long loop_end;
 short loop;
 short volume;
 MIDI *midi;
};



typedef struct newcombo150 {
  word tile;
  byte flip;
  byte walk;
  byte type;
  byte attr;
  word e;
};

int loadquest150(char *filename, zquestheader *header,
              miscQdata *misc, music *midis)
{
 PACKFILE *f = pack_fopen(filename,F_READ_PACKED);
 if(!f)
   return open_error;

 if(!pfread(header,sizeof(zquestheader150),f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return qe_invalid;
   }
 if(!pfread(MsgStrings,sizeof(MsgStr150)*128,f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return qe_invalid;
   }
 if(!pfread(DMaps,sizeof(dmap150)*32,f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return qe_invalid;
   }
 if(!pfread(misc,sizeof(miscQdata150),f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return qe_invalid;
   }
 for(int i=0; i<header->map_count; i++) {
   if(!pfread(TheMaps+(i*130),sizeof(mapscr)*130,f)) {
     pack_fclose(f);
     return qe_invalid;
     }
   }
 if(!pfread(TheMaps+(TEMPLATE),sizeof(mapscr150),f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return qe_invalid;
   }
 if(!pfread(combobuf,sizeof(combo150)*512,f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return qe_invalid;
   }
   //Not sure what this is yet. -Z
 if(!pfread(colordata,psTOTAL,f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return qe_invalid;
   }

 if(header->data_flags[0])
 {
   if(!pfread(tilebuf,TILEBUF_SIZE,f))
   {
     pack_fclose(f);
     return qe_invalid;
   }
 }
 else
 {
   for(int i=0; i<(320*480)/4; i++)
     ((long*)tilebuf)[i]=((long*)data[TIL_NES].dat)[i]; //Where is this one defined. Sigh. -Z
 }

 //We might need to skip midi loading for old quests. 
 for(int i=0; i<16; i++)
 {
   reset_midi(midis+i);
   if(get_bit(header->data_flags+1,i))
   {
     if(!pfread(midis+i,sizeof(music150),f) ||
        !(midis[i].midi=read_midi(f)) )
     {
       pack_fclose(f);
       return qe_invalid;
     }
   }
 }

 pack_fclose(f);
/*
 if(header->zelda_version > ZELDA_VERSION)
   return qe_version;

 // minimum zquest version allowed for any quest file
 if(header->zelda_version < MIN_VERSION)
   return qe_obsolete;
*/
 #ifndef _ZQUEST_
 // individual minimum version for the specific quest (optional)
 int qnum = header->quest_number;
 if(qnum < QUEST_COUNT && header->zelda_version < min_version[qnum])
   return qe_obsolete;
 #endif

 if(strcmp(header->id_str,QH_IDSTR))
   return qe_invalid;

 return qe_OK;
}






//Saving

//Passwords

char zeldapwd[8]  = { 'j'+11,'i'+22,'e'+33,'r'+44,'u'+55,0+66,'x'+77,'c'+88 };
char zquestpwd[8] = { 'c'+11,'a'+22,'o'+33,'c'+44,'a'+55,'o'+66,0+77,'k'+88 };
char datapwd[8]   = { 'l'+11,'o'+22,'n'+33,'g'+44,'t'+55,'a'+66,'n'+77,0+88 };

void resolve_password(char *pwd)
{
  for(int i=0; i<8; i++)
    pwd[i]-=(i+1)*11;
}


int save_quest(char *filename)
{
 strcpy(header.id_str,QH_IDSTR);
 header.zelda_version = ZELDA_VERSION;
 header.internal = INTERNAL_VERSION;
 header.str_count = msg_count;
 header.data_flags[0] = usetiles;
 for(int i=0; i<MAXMIDIS; i++)
   set_bit(header.data_flags+ZQ_MIDIS,i,int(customMIDIs[i].midi!=NULL));


 PACKFILE *f = pack_fopen(filename,F_WRITE_PACKED);
 if(!f)
   return 1;
 if(!pfwrite(&header,sizeof(zquestheader),f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return 2;
   }
 if(!pfwrite(MsgStrings,sizeof(MsgStr)*MAXMSGS,f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return 3;
   }
 if(!pfwrite(DMaps,sizeof(dmap)*MAXDMAPS,f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return 4;
   }
 if(!pfwrite(&misc,sizeof(miscQdata),f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return 5;
   }
 for(int i=0; i<header.map_count; i++) {
   if(!pfwrite(TheMaps+(i*130),sizeof(mapscr)*130,f)) {
     pack_fclose(f);
     return 6+i;
     }
   }
 if(!pfwrite(TheMaps+(TEMPLATE),sizeof(mapscr),f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return 15;
   }
 if(!pfwrite(combobuf,sizeof(combo)*512,f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return 16;
   }
   //colourdata routines are deprecated, so we should be able to ignore this; right? 
   //or do we need to port it to palettes? Huzzah, old hardcoded palettes. 
   //Held in colors.cc, for reference. -Z
 if(!pfwrite(colordata,psTOTAL,f)) {
   pack_fclose(f);
   return 17;
   }
 if(header.data_flags[0])
   if(!pfwrite(tilebuf,TILEBUF_SIZE,f))
   {
     pack_fclose(f);
     return 18;
   }
 for(int i=0; i<MAXMIDIS; i++)
 {
   if(get_bit(header.data_flags+ZQ_MIDIS,i))
   {
     if(!pfwrite(customMIDIs+i,sizeof(music),f) ||
        !write_midi(customMIDIs[i].midi,f) )
     {
       pack_fclose(f);
       return 19+i;
     }

   }
 }

 pack_fclose(f);
 return 0;
}
}

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 29 August 2017 - 08:09 PM.

[Evan20000]

I've put a lot of time into the backwards compatibility over the years, trying to get everything to work as smoothly as possible, updating versions, making sure 2.53 and DOSBox have a chance of working, etc.  Too many hours to count honestly.  I have also been in touch with the AGN Devs trying to get this to work.  If he's not a dev or using an alt, it's kinda like rent-a-modding, on something I've put hundreds of hours into.  Sorry if I'm short, but I found it disrespectful, and until 1.00+ compatibility is put in, it really can't be fixed without me directly saving it as in 2.50+,

 

-James

It's not at all like rent a modding. He was trying to help you save your project. Don't turn around and bite helping hands, no matter how irate you may be that your stuff doesn't work anymore. Best of luck salvaging what's usable from the wreckage. I'd suggest trying to export the maps in 2.5x and importing them in the newest version, for starters.

[Nightmare]

It's not at all like rent a modding. He was trying to help you save your project. Don't turn around and bite helping hands, no matter how irate you may be that your stuff doesn't work anymore. Best of luck salvaging what's usable from the wreckage. I'd suggest trying to export the maps in 2.5x and importing them in the newest version, for starters.

 

Evan, it's not that.

 

1.  The devs and I have put a lot of time recently into doing this backwards compatibility issue.  We have gone over every little possibility, on some of the oldest (and debatably some of the hardest) quests on the database, when I have to beat these quests with barely any help, any guide,or anything.

 

2.  I have a lot of quests, and it's getting very, very hard to upgrade every single version and keep them working.  I update these things for a reason.  I know some people didn't particularly care for New Quest Rebuilt, but it had to be done.  Some flaws came out during the development of New Quest DLC version (which were cancelled) which made the 2013 version very unstable and was getting less so by the day.

 

Just a revisionist's history on New Quest's original engine version alone (and this doesn't include James Quest, Memorial Quest, New Quest 2, or discontinued quests):

 

1.  New Quest 1.02 - 1999

2.  New Quest 1.84 (conversion)

3.  New Quest 2003 - B182 - 2003/4

4.  New Quest 2.10 (conversion)

5.  New Quest 2.50 (conversion)

6.  New Quest 2013 - 2.50 - 2013

 

As each version upgraded, new flags got updated, and some of the cores got unstable.  I was expecting 2003 to die sometime soon, and in 2.53, it finally did.  It's totally unplayable.  2013 works for now, IDK for how long (2.54 could be it for that).  Rebuilt was made so that the quest would last into future ZC's and still work as the other versions die out.

 

It is to my understanding that a lot of people still love the 2003 version (especially older players), but sometimes developers (whether quests or coders) have reasons for what they do, and are privy to things that the players don't know.  It also takes a tremendous amount of time to update stuff, and I can't be doing it every 2 months for every little quest.  I have other things I need to do with my life, maybe move onto other projects?  The last thing I want to do is make another god damned remake of NQ 2003.  I am sorry if that offends people.

 

3,  Zoria stated a lot of the issues I'm having in his previous post.  This is why it's dead for now.  If something changes I will gladly let you know.  If someone is REALLY interested in porting New Quest 2003 to 2.53 without any changes, be my guest.  I'll playtest it and make sure everything works.  But I'd rather focus on the old versions being played on DOSBox emulator like Nintendo games are or on 1.92 B 183 Windows (which is still available) which would probably please the type of people looking for old versions (like speedrunners and absolute purists) more.

 

-James

Edited by Nightmare, 29 August 2017 - 08:40 PM.

[Timelord]

To clarify something, to everyone, the mapdata format also changed from 1.xx to 2.xx. You cannot import a map from< 1.90, into 2.50. Adding routines to permit this is something that is probably worth doing, but it is not a high priority because of both the relatively small sample size of quests for these old ZC versions, and the lack of source files.

(Doing data analysis on quest files, to figure out the size and distribution of bits is the last resort for this type of thing.)

Let's compare mapdata:

1.50
 

typedef struct mapscr150{
// 48-byte header
  byte valid,guy,str,room,        item,catchall,warptype,flags;
  byte warpx,warpy,stairx,stairy, itemx,itemy,color,enemyflags;
  byte door[4], warpdmap,warpscr,exitdir,flags2;
  byte enemy[10],pattern, warptype2,warpx2,warpy2,path[4];
  byte warpscr2,warpdmap2;
  word under;
  byte unused_data[2];
// 352 bytes of screen data
  word data[16*11];
// 400 bytes total
};

2.50

struct mapscr
{
    byte valid;
    byte guy;
    word str;
    byte room;
    byte item;
    byte hasitem;
    byte tilewarptype[4];
    byte tilewarpoverlayflags;
    word door_combo_set;
    byte warpreturnx[4];
    byte warpreturny[4];
    word warpreturnc;
    byte stairx;
    byte stairy;
    byte itemx;
    byte itemy;
    word color;
    byte enemyflags;
    byte door[4];
    word tilewarpdmap[4];
    byte tilewarpscr[4];
    byte exitdir;
    word enemy[10];
    byte pattern;
    byte sidewarptype[4];
    byte sidewarpoverlayflags;
    byte warparrivalx;
    byte warparrivaly;
    byte path[4];
    byte sidewarpscr[4];
    word sidewarpdmap[4];
    byte sidewarpindex;
    word undercombo;
    byte undercset;
    word catchall;
    byte flags;
    byte flags2;
    byte flags3;
    byte flags4;
    byte flags5;
    byte flags6;
    byte flags7;
    byte flags8;
    byte flags9;
    byte flags10;
    byte csensitive;
    word noreset;
    word nocarry;
    byte layermap[6];
    byte layerscreen[6];
    //  byte layerxsize[6];
    //  byte layerxspeed[6];
    //  byte layerxdelay[6];
    //  byte layerysize[6];
    //  byte layeryspeed[6];
    //  byte layerydelay[6];
    byte layeropacity[6];
    word timedwarptics;
    byte nextmap;
    byte nextscr;
    word secretcombo[128];
    byte secretcset[128];
    byte secretflag[128];
    // you're listening to ptr radio, the sounds of insane. ;)
    std::vector<word> data;
    std::vector<byte> sflag;
    std::vector<byte> cset;
    word viewX;
    word viewY;
    byte scrWidth;
    byte scrHeight;
    
    //Why doesn't ffc get to be its own class?
    dword numff;
    word ffdata[32];
    byte ffcset[32];
    word ffdelay[32];
    long ffx[32];
    long ffy[32];
    long ffxdelta[32];
    long ffydelta[32];
    long ffxdelta2[32];
    long ffydelta2[32];
    dword ffflags[32];
    byte ffwidth[32];
    byte ffheight[32];
    byte fflink[32];
    
    //ffc script attachments
    word ffscript[32];
    long initd[32][8];
    long inita[32][2];
    bool initialized[32];
    
    /*long d[32][8];
    long a[32][2];
    word pc[32];
    dword scriptflag[32];
    byte sp[32]; //stack pointer
    byte ffcref[32];
    dword itemref[32];
    byte itemclass[32];
    dword lwpnref[32];
    dword ewpnref[32];
    dword guyref[32];*/
    //byte lwpnclass[32]; Not implemented
    //byte ewpnclass[32]; Not implemented
    //byte guyclass[32]; Not implemented
    
    /*long map_stack[256];
    long map_d[8];
    word map_pc;
    dword map_scriptflag;
    byte map_sp;
    byte map_itemref;
    byte map_itemclass;
    byte map_lwpnref;
    byte map_lwpnclass;
    byte map_ewpnref;
    byte map_ewpnclass;
    byte map_guyref;
    byte map_guyclass;
    byte map_ffcref;*/ //All this is trash because we don't have map scripts, waste of memory
    word script_entry;
    word script_occupancy;
    word script_exit;
    
    byte oceansfx;
    byte bosssfx;
    byte secretsfx;
    byte holdupsfx;
    
    // for importing older quests...
    byte old_cpage;
    short screen_midi;
    byte lens_layer;
    
    
    void zero_memory()
    {
        //oh joy, this will be fun...
        valid=0;
        guy=0;
        str=0;
        room=0;
        item=0;
        hasitem=0;
        tilewarpoverlayflags=0;
        door_combo_set=0;
        warpreturnc=0;
        stairx=0;
        stairy=0;
        itemx=0;
        itemy=0;
        color=0;
        enemyflags=0;
        
        exitdir=0;
        pattern=0;
        sidewarpoverlayflags=0;
        warparrivalx=0;
        warparrivaly=0;
        
        sidewarpindex=0;
        undercombo=0;
        undercset=0;
        catchall=0;
        flags=0;
        flags2=0;
        flags3=0;
        flags4=0;
        flags5=0;
        flags6=0;
        flags7=0;
        flags8=0;
        flags9=0;
        flags10=0;
        csensitive=0;
        noreset=0;
        nocarry=0;
        timedwarptics=0;
        nextmap=0;
        nextscr=0;
        
        viewX=0;
        viewY=0;
        scrWidth=0;
        scrHeight=0;
        numff=0;
        
        for(int i(0); i<4; i++)
        {
            door[i]=0;
            tilewarpdmap[i]=0;
            tilewarpscr[i]=0;
            tilewarptype[i]=0;
            warpreturnx[i]=0;
            warpreturny[i]=0;
            path[i]=0;
            sidewarpscr[i]=0;
            sidewarpdmap[i]=0;
            sidewarptype[i]=0;
        }
        
        for(int i(0); i<10; i++)
            enemy[i]=0;
            
        for(int i(0); i<128; i++)
        {
            secretcombo[i]=0;
            secretcset[i]=0;
            secretflag[i]=0;
        }
        
        for(int i(0); i<6; i++)
        {
            layermap[i]=0;
            layerscreen[i]=0;
            layeropacity[i]=0;
        }
        
        for(int i(0); i<32; i++)
        {
            for(int j(0); j<8; j++)
            {
                //d[i][j]=0;
                initd[i][j]=0;
            }
            
            for(int j(0); j<2; j++)
            {
                inita[i][j]=0;
                //a[i][j]=0;
            }
            
            initialized[i]=0;
            /*pc[i]=0;
            scriptflag[i]=0;
            sp[i]=0;
            ffcref[i]=0;
            itemref[i]=0;
            itemclass[i]=0;*/
            ffdata[i]=0;
            ffcset[i]=0;
            ffdelay[i]=0;
            ffx[i]=0;
            ffy[i]=0;
            ffxdelta[i]=0;
            ffydelta[i]=0;
            ffxdelta2[i]=0;
            ffydelta2[i]=0;
            ffflags[i]=0;
            ffwidth[i]=0;
            ffheight[i]=0;
            fflink[i]=0;
            ffscript[i]=0;
        }
        
        /*	  for(int i(0);i<256;i++)
        	  {
        	   map_stack[i]=0;
        	  }
        	   for(int i(0);i<8;i++)
        	  {
        	   map_d[i]=0;
        	  }
           map_pc=0;
           map_scriptflag=0;
           map_sp=map_itemref=map_itemclass=0;
           map_lwpnref=0;
           map_lwpnclass=0;
           map_ewpnref=0;
           map_ewpnclass=0;
           map_guyref=0;
           map_guyclass=0;
           map_ffcref=0;*/
        script_entry=0;
        script_occupancy=0;
        script_exit=0;
        oceansfx=0;
        bosssfx=0;
        secretsfx=0;
        holdupsfx=0;
        lens_layer=0;
        
        data.assign(176,0);
        sflag.assign(176,0);
        cset.assign(176,0);
        //data.assign(data.size(),0);
        //sflag.assign(sflag.size(),0);
        //cset.assign(cset.size(),0);
    }
    
    
    mapscr()
    {
        data.resize(176,0);
        sflag.resize(176,0);
        cset.resize(176,0);
        zero_memory();
    }
    
};

See the issue there?
 
All of the data in the quest files is stored in a linear manner, and must be extracted in precise order, and put into the correct memory locations. If it is off, by even one bit, the output is corrupted. making loaders for each format is not a trivial matter. hell, even now, 2.50 quest map export and import has bugs with its own format.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 29 August 2017 - 08:33 PM.

[Deedee]

Are you "even on ZC development staff"?  Most of the staff is well aware of what I'm testing and 1.02 compatibility is not on the list at the current moment.  I'd consider this message rather trollish if you're not.

 

-James

Jeez, no need to be a dick about it. The guy was just trying to help.

Also, you aren't on the dev team either. 100% backwards compatibility is a fairly high-priority goal, and saying otherwise is just being dishonest.

[Nathaniel]

Jeez, no need to be a dick about it. The guy was just trying to help.

Also, you aren't on the dev team either. 100% backwards compatibility is a fairly high-priority goal, and saying otherwise is just being dishonest.

 

As much as I agree with others on Nightmare's attitude in this thread, the first part of your post, specifically the name calling, was unnecessary.  Others were already essentially telling him the same thing, only in more articulate ways.  There should be no intention here to dogpile.

 

As for anybody else who is tempted to do the same, let's try to keep this thread on the right track.

[Timelord]

Jeez, no need to be a dick about it. The guy was just trying to help.

Also, you aren't on the dev team either. 100% backwards compatibility is a fairly high-priority goal, and saying otherwise is just being dishonest.

While this is certainly true, the spec is for 100% compatibility with 1.90, 1.92 (all major betas), 2.10, 2.10.1, 2.10.2, and 2.50.0->2.50.2.

1.84 and earlier, 2.50 betas, and some minor stuff that is specific to 2.50.3 was specifically not included in that specification, for various reasons. The most notable, is the lack of the original source code for these old builds from 1 years ago.

Those of you who have been around long enough, may remember that versions 1.0 through 1.84 all came out within the span of about one year. Phantom Menace produced v1.0 through v1.82, and retired in January 2001. War Lord took over from there, alone, and produced ZC until the 2.11 era. He was the only one with sources for versions between 1.83 and 1.90, and sources for 2.91 through 2.50.0 are still mostly unavailable. (I would like to see this resolved, too, and those sources handed to everyone involved.)

We never discussed 1.00, 1.50, 1.60, 1.7x, 1.82, 1.83, 1.84 or any of the interim releases from 2000. When PM stopped working on ZC (v1.82), the source passed to War Lord. At this time, he has no idea where that source would be, if it exists at all. That means that full compatibility with these versions would be very difficult, and probably spotty.

I would like to see 1.84 compatibility, at least, in the form of being able to import 1.84 quests in ZQ and save them. If 2.53->2.60 can play 1.84 quests, that is even better. I have the source for 1.00 and 1.50, and even with that, adding 1.00 and 1.50 quest loading is going to be a challenge.

One possible option, may be a standalone quest converter, that produces a new quest file for the most current version of ZQuest, but an issue with updating old quests in this manner, is that it may mean allowing anyone to edit them. I do not know how critical an issue that may be for the lot of you.

Really though, if you look at the 1.00 and 1.50 structs, and quest format, and if you consider that there are some packfile changes in allegro--remember, these old versions used allegro 1, 2, and 3--and that the password format was different, it's sort of a nightmare (no pun intended) to add this stuff.

At present, the highest priority is to sort out the bugs in 2.53, and make it rock solid, to use as a foundation for the next two or three interim releases until 2.60 is ready. The way this will work, is that features that are added to master that are known to be retained, will be backported to 2.50.x, producing new versions. The first of these, 2.54, will be the initial build to add truly new features.

2.54 will primarily be a ZScipt update, whereas 2.55 will likely be the one that adds new editor features. I'll be working on the specs for these in the autumn and early winter, but much of the new ZScript (in the extant pointers and classes) can begin migrating into this codebase.

Adding 1.xx quest importing might be possible along the way, but I will need cooperation and assistance across the board. THe fact that James is willing to spend a lot of time testing what versions can read old quest files, and what quest versions have bugs, and documenting the issues, goes a long way toward making this viable.

I'm not much of a fan of the banter on the subject though. I'd rather see constructive discussion on this topic, than to start ranting on it, accusing people, and devolving this into a long list of idiotic name calling. If adding this kind of feature--which is in fact, quite hard to do--amounts to no more than a huge bickerfest, then no-one is going to want to be involved.

All of us have limited time, and I;m no exception. I spent several hours today going over the 1.xx sources that I have, and examining the routines. I even went as far as to start piecing together a makeshift makefile to try to build 1.50, which is not something that I truly love doing, but it may be needed so that it is possible to create 1.50 quests to use as validation files foe an import function.

If any of you want to assist with this endeavour, that would be fantastic, but this topic is probably best removed to its own thread.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 30 August 2017 - 12:49 AM.

[Ryunaker]

Just to let you know, I had not intended to 'rent-a-mod', or anything along those lines, nor was I trying to be a troll.  I was not aware that you were already working with the devs, and I wanted to make sure you were aware that they seemed to be interested in doing what they could to keep old projects alive.  I am sorry that my attempt to help seems to have been taken the wrong way.

[Nightmare]

Just to let you know, I had not intended to 'rent-a-mod', or anything along those lines, nor was I trying to be a troll.  I was not aware that you were already working with the devs, and I wanted to make sure you were aware that they seemed to be interested in doing what they could to keep old projects alive.  I am sorry that my attempt to help seems to have been taken the wrong way.

Apology accepted.  Sorry for blowing up on you, just the time I've put into this is immense, and my frustration came out.

 

Maybe we'll get a one-time deal of 1.84 released stuff if this works well.  Let's hope.

 

-James

Edited by Nightmare, 30 August 2017 - 10:30 AM.