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Zodiac, Story of the Guardian


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#31 ShadowTiger

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:07 PM

Hey C, do you think it would make a big difference on the quest if the Quest Rule "No Scrolling" were checked? Would it break anything? I feel like it would grant quite a pleasing aesthetic kick to the quest. Not to mention eliminate those really annoying jumping off the top of the screen scrolling wait times.

#32 C-Dawg

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 12:15 AM

Well, its not passworded. You could give it a shot and see if you like it. Might work, or might be too jarring

#33 Moosh

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 12:33 AM

Hey C, do you think it would make a big difference on the quest if the Quest Rule "No Scrolling" were checked? Would it break anything? I feel like it would grant quite a pleasing aesthetic kick to the quest. Not to mention eliminate those really annoying jumping off the top of the screen scrolling wait times.

I tried doing this and it caused serious issues in some areas. As annoying as it can be at times, the quest is built around the screen scrolling animations being a thing so it's probably best to leave them in.

 

Haven't found much time to play this lately I'm afraid. I'll get back to it some time in the future I'm sure, so don't feel like I've lost interest or anything.



#34 ShadowTiger

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 03:31 PM

What kind of issues? Visual issues are no problem, at least not for someone with no standards like me. If it causes technical problems, that's something else.

Because I was playing with the Quest Rule on, and it was fantastic. It was so much faster.

#35 C-Dawg

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 03:53 PM

There shouldn't be any technical issues.  I didn't knowingly design with that in mind.  However, aesthetically, I would imagine it would be kind of jarring to move from one area to another with a blip instead of scrolling.  Feel, free to report on your experiences, though!

 

Are you playing fairly, Shadow?  If so, how are far you, and have you noticed any problems yet?



#36 Moosh

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:09 PM

I seem to recall there were also some areas where the engine behaved slightly differently with the scrolling off. Certain precise one pixel movements on screen edges appeared to be possible with the scrolling on but not with it off. At least that's how it seemed. But the big issue for me was jumping up into screens and not being able to react to stuff in time before falling back down.



#37 ShadowTiger

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:20 PM

Yezzir, fairly it be, though I've had to Cheat-kill some bosses that wouldn't register as dead once their HP dropped to zero in order to progress. I'm going to double back and see if I can't reproduce that. I just got the High-jump boots, and am looking for the Disintegrater beam to explore the sandy areas.

There's an area in the middle of Scorpio that can't be jumped out of. Basically, it's really easy to get to map 4 Screen 17 and not be able to jump out of it. You're stuck there unless you Save and continue.

Those hopping vulture enemies are adorable, by the way.

Also, two things, please.

1) Is there an area name anywhere? Like the Dmap Title or something? I didn't know I was in Aquarius until I had clued it in from the game. Maybe I'm just missing the area name somewhere and my eyes are passing right over it.

2) Something similar to that but with item names. It would really be handy to know what everything is that we're picking up. Item pickup messages would be handy too, though I'm not sure if that would be part of the quest aesthetics, considering that there is no narrator, and the protagonist doesn't speak.

I seem to recall there were also some areas where the engine behaved slightly differently with the scrolling off. Certain precise one pixel movements on screen edges appeared to be possible with the scrolling on but not with it off. At least that's how it seemed. But the big issue for me was jumping up into screens and not being able to react to stuff in time before falling back down.

Yes, it's roughly this, in terms of altered mechanics. It's ironic, actually. One of the entire reasons why I turned the quest rule on was to make it far, far faster to jump up into the top of the screen, see where I have to jump to, fall back to the screen I had jumped from, and make the jump with the proper direction. That took in the vicinity of seven seconds, more or less. Now it's barely two or three, if even. But with the quest rule on, it's not really visible if you're bumping your head on something, or what it is you're bumping it on. You'd have to hit F3 for that and advance it frame by frame.

#38 C-Dawg

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:23 PM

Oh no. What bosses are still causing you problems?  Are you running the latest version?  I thought I totally crushed that bug when I overhauled all boss life bar codes last time.

 

As for the lack of information, it's partly aesthetic.  I'm trying to tell the story mostly by things the player patches together, rather than ever being direct about what is going on.  You have to decide for yourself how reliable the other characters are.  I can tweak the initial conversation with the Spy to make it more clear where you are, though.

 

The Zodiac is arranged in a hub-and-spoke pattern.  Aquarius is the hub.  From Aquarius, you can access the following Zones, and in turn, those Zones have access to further Zones:

 

Connected to Aquarius---------->Further Zone

Scorpio -----------------------------> Virgo

Aries --------------------------------> Leo

Cancer ------------------------------> Libra

Pieces -------------------------------> Capricorn   ---------> Sagittarius

Gemini -------------------------------> Taurus 

 

I'll probably tweak a lot of the dialogue in the game before calling it done.  It's a balance between getting just the right amount of information out there in a way people won't miss and get confused... while still making information valuable.


Edited by C-Dawg, 20 June 2014 - 04:27 PM.


#39 ShadowTiger

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:28 PM

Oh, I downloaded the latest released quest file, opened it in ZQuest, and then compiled the latest script file 'backup' that was also found here, from posts 29 and 30, respectively.

I'll make a list when I run through it this evening. The High Jump Boots boss is one of them. The Aries Ram Boss was another.


EDIT: ... the post below this one. That explains it. :P

#40 C-Dawg

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:32 PM

What?  Nooooo don't change the Zscript file!  It's already uploaded and complied with each latest release!

 

EDIT: I see what happened.  I didn't upload the QST file last time, I uploaded the Z file.  That will not work, that will not work at all.  I'll upload a new version of the QST file with everything in place later tonight.

 

EDIT2 - Which boss do you mean?   The red robot guarding the Aries Saber?  How did you get to him so early?


Edited by C-Dawg, 20 June 2014 - 04:36 PM.

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#41 ShadowTiger

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:41 PM

Aha, alright. Gotcha. I thought it was a bit odd that a .z file was uploaded. Okay, I'll wait for that version as the de-facto version to use from now until the next one.


At some point I decided to explore to see if I had missed anything. I was using a version I had unknowingly sabotaged for myself, so I wanted to see where I should have been, so I was following various paths backwards to see if I could have gone there yet. Stumbling into boss rooms just kinda happens. That all happened after I had gotten the high jump boots. I'll be starting a new save file anyway shortly in the new version.

Also, there are no maps, yes? No mapping system at all, it seems, thus far.

#42 C-Dawg

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:46 PM

No maps.  Maps are for the weak.  But I'm not totally heartless.  The game has a coordinate system that lets you find your way around if you're paying attention to what people tell you.  Yes, you can stumble into some boss rooms, but the Aries Zodiac Weapon should not be accessible until you get the Grapple Beam.  I'll check into the passage leading there and see if I can replicate what you did. 



#43 ShadowTiger

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 04:55 PM

Oh I didn't get into Aries via a natural passageway. That was me F11'ing around the map to check on places that are and aren't finished.

If anything, what I was mostly doing in goofing around was exploiting a half-block jumping glitch in the jump script. It was probably caused by the recompiling the script with the backup, though I wouldn't know that for a fact, but apparently if you try to jump through the edge of a block, it'll propel you far higher than a normal jump would. The effect is slightly mitigated when you have the jump boots, but it's a pretty powerful jump.

Well, again, I'm eager to test under proper conditions.

Okay, when someone says "I will upload the coordinates to you," what actually happens? Does a door open?

In the meantime, a few strings that might need to be looked at for assorted reasons.

Spoiler


#44 C-Dawg

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 05:13 PM

Keep em coming!

 

Yeah, the wall-jumping behavior you noticed is an unintended side effect of my current jump code.  But honestly, I kind of like it.  It's a strange, quirky, and hard to pull off maneuver.  I noticed it early on, so you shouldn't be able to use it to break sequences in any serious way.  It's just useful to know if you can do it to help you get around.

 

You do it by jumping up into a solid block from below, with the Guardian just one pixel inside the solid block.  If you do it right, she'll kind of stick inside the solid block and be able to jump again.  This doesn't work at the very top of the screen.

 

Re: Coordinates

 

You know the coordinates on the top right of the screen?  The top of that block tells you where you are in the current Zone using the same hex coordinates as you see in ZQuest.  Uploading coordinates means you will get a second pair of coordinates below where you are telling you where you need to go.


Edited by C-Dawg, 20 June 2014 - 05:15 PM.

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#45 ShadowTiger

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 07:59 PM

Alrighty, spell-check completed.  It's in my post above. 
 
 
List of screens that does not have Sideview Gravity.
 
Spoiler
 
 
Other problems:
Spoiler
 
 
 
Change the title of Dmap #1 and #16 to Pisces. :P   Otherwise, I'll have to make some stupid pun about going to pieces.  We both don't want that to happen.
 
 
Again, finishing this post so it's visible.


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