18 replies to this topic

[Mani Kanina]

If anyone here got a good grasp of the "misc colors" menu in ZQ, that would be nice, as it confuses me.


I assumed that "Link's Position" would be the colour used for the link marker in the minimap, for example. But that does not seem to be the case, as when I set it to palette 7 (on of the standard sprite palettes), it seems to still use the standard Link palette colour when I go in-game. I also wanted to change the colour for the font used in shops, I assumed that was the "text" one, but that does not seem to have any effect on it. Am I looking in the wrong place for these options? Running the latest ZC here (2.50.2 AKA build 29).

[Timelord]

If anyone here got a good grasp of the "misc colors" menu in ZQ, that would be nice, as it confuses me.


I assumed that "Link's Position" would be the colour used for the link marker in the minimap, for example. But that does not seem to be the case, as when I set it to palette 7 (on of the standard sprite palettes), it seems to still use the standard Link palette colour when I go in-game. I also wanted to change the colour for the font used in shops, I assumed that was the "text" one, but that does not seem to have any effect on it. Am I looking in the wrong place for these options? Running the latest ZC here (2.50.2 AKA build 29).

 

 

Here's what I recall:

 

Pane 1:

 

Text: The text used on the subscreen. Possibly also the continue/retry screen, or colour of DMap intro text.

Caption: Supposedly the colour of captions on the subscreen.

Overworld Minimap: The field of the map, if no graphic is applied. NES Style, only.

Minimap Background: The minimap background for dungeon, and interior maps. The colour that will bleed through colour 0, if using a graphic.

Minimap Foreground (1) : Colour of minimap rooms.

 

Pane 2:

Minimap Foreground (2): Alternative room colour, enabled by DMap Flags.

BS Minimap Dark: I haven't used BS mode in years, so I don't recall. Works only on BS Overworld maps.

BS Minimap Goal: Ditto

Compass Mark (Light): Should be the normal compass marker.

Compass Mark (Dark): The compass mark, when the player obtains the TF piece for the level.

 

Pane 3

Subscreen Background: Deprecated by subscreen editor. Sets colour of original ZC subscreen background.

Subscreen Shadow: I have no idea what this one does, but it's probably there for compatibility reasons.

Triforce Frame: Exists for backward compatibility with very old quests. Sets the colour of the stock TF frame, deprecated by SS Editor.

Big Map Background/Foreground: Background colour when drawing active subscreen map graphics.

 

Pane 4

 

Link's Position: The colour used for Link, with no ring, on the passive subscreen map. Overriden by CSet swapping, and you may need to change the colour in your main palette, in order for this value to change accordingly. If the player has an armour ring, then the colour used is set by the Ring held by the player, via the item editor settings for the ring. IIRC, this value must be from CSet 06. It's probably easier just to change the colour in the palette directly. The default is colour 0x61 (CSet 6, colour 01).

 

I believe that you can change this to another swatch of CSet 6, but not CSet 7 (or any CSet other than 6).

 

Message text: The colour of message text, if not changed by SCCs. May also be the colour of DMap intro text.

 

I hope that helps. Most of this is material that no-one ever asks about, and I would check some of it on the Wiki--if entries exist--but the Shardstorm Wiki is down due to a server fault at present.

 

P.S. I have a scripted minimap in the works, that I'll be happy to share, when done, that may better suit your needs.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 21 November 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[Mani Kanina]

Link's Position: The colour used for Link, with no ring, on the passive subscreen map. Overriden by CSet swapping, and you may need to change the colour in your main palette, in order for this value to change accordingly. If the player has an armour ring, then the colour used is set by the Ring held by the player, via the item editor settings for the ring. IIRC, this value must be from CSet 06. It's probably easier just to change the colour in the palette directly. The default is colour 0x61 (CSet 6, colour 01).
 
I believe that you can change this to another swatch of CSet 6, but not CSet 7 (or any CSet other than 6).

 
Message text: The colour of message text, if not changed by SCCs. May also be the colour of DMap intro text.

That sounds really dumb, why is the editor not throwing any errors when you try to specify the minimap marker to another CSet than 6? Because with the current set-up it would be given that you could set it to any CSet you want. :/

Anyway, I still have no idea what colour the shops draw from for their text. Which is the main issue here. (Because it seems to be none of these for some stupid reason. :I)

 

I hope that helps. Most of this is material that no-one ever asks about, and I would check some of it on the Wiki--if entries exist--but the Shardstorm Wiki is down due to a server fault at present.

The wiki is usually very bare bones in most topics, I do look up certain things there, but it does generally not much much more information than the editor itself on most things. (But there are topics that are fleshed out there.)
 

P.S. I have a scripted minimap in the works, that I'll be happy to share, when done, that may better suit your needs.

Can you please try not to advertise your content in every thread you post in? I realise it's not breaking any rules, but to me I find it to be in bad taste when it's often not particularly relevant, and I have noticed you doing this in many of the threads you post in. :V

I mean, I realise we are vaguely discussing the topic of the minimap, but it's not as if I'm actively frustrated about it or looking for a completely different solution. So to me it just comes across as shameless advertising to bring it up. :I

Edited by Lunaria, 21 November 2015 - 12:44 PM.

[Timelord]

That sounds really dumb, why is the editor not throwing any errors when you try to specify the minimap marker to another CSet than 6? Because with the current set-up it would be given that you could set it to any CSet you want. :/

Anyway, I still have no idea what colour the shops draw from for their text. Which is the main issue here. (Because it seems to be none of these for some stupid reason. :I)

 
The wiki is usually very bare bones in most topics, I do look up certain things there, but it does generally not much much more information than the editor itself on most things. (But there are topics that are fleshed out there.)
 
Can you please try not to advertise your content in every thread you post in? I realise it's not breaking any rules, but to me I find it to be in bad taste when it's often not particularly relevant, and I have noticed you doing this in many of the threads you post in. :V

I mean, I realise we are vaguely discussing the topic of the minimap, but it's not as if I'm actively frustrated about it or looking for a completely different solution. So to me it just comes across as shameless advertising to bring it up. :I

 

Shop text, is either Pane 1 (Text), or Pane 4 (Message Text), if anything. If not, just use string control codes to set the colour. That's why they exist.

 

You know what, I'm done being generous... I won't offer any more, to you. Minimap markers are the main colour point you said that you wanted, and I'm doing minimap things because I'm sick of not being able to place custom markers in any room, but yeah, if you're going to be nasty about it, I certainly won't bother trying to give you usable solutions in the future.

 

I won't however, avoid being nice to other members for your benefit.

 

The reason that the minimap marker must be on CSet 6, is because that CSet is bankswitched with Link palette changes.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 21 November 2015 - 09:21 PM.

[Mani Kanina]

Shop text, is either Pane 1 (Text), or Pane 4 (Message Text), if anything.
 
...Minimap markers are the only colour point you said that you wanted...

Actually, I stated in the original post that I was looking for the shop text colour:

If anyone here got a good grasp of the "misc colors" menu in ZQ, that would be nice, as it confuses me.


I assumed that "Link's Position" would be the colour used for the link marker in the minimap, for example. But that does not seem to be the case, as when I set it to palette 7 (on of the standard sprite palettes), it seems to still use the standard Link palette colour when I go in-game. I also wanted to change the colour for the font used in shops, I assumed that was the "text" one, but that does not seem to have any effect on it. Am I looking in the wrong place for these options? Running the latest ZC here (2.50.2 AKA build 29).

And, no dice, I have tried those and they don't seem to correlate to it, which is weird.

I also tried to set the link value to 68, but it still displays as 62, which is forking weird. I'm starting to think that the misc colour menu is bugged.
 

You know what, I'm done being generous... I won't offer any more, to you. Minimap markers are the only colour point you said that you wanted, and I'm doing minimap things because I'm sick of not being able to place custom markers in any room, but yeah, if you're going to be nasty about it, I certainly won't bother trying to give you usable solutions in the future.

I don't see how pointing out that I have a problem with your advertisement in other peoples threads could be considered nasty, but hey, it's up to you what you want to take from it. I would have hoped that you'd reflect on why others may see it differently than you, rather than putting barbs out, but that's up to you I suppose. Have a nice day.

[Timelord]

Actually, I stated in the original post that I was looking for the shop text colour:
And, no dice, I have tried those and they don't seem to correlate to it, which is weird.

I also tried to set the link value to 68, but it still displays as 62, which is forking weird. I'm starting to think that the misc colour menu is bugged.
 
I don't see how pointing out that I have a problem with your advertisement in other peoples threads could be considered nasty, but hey, it's up to you what you want to take from it. I would have hoped that you'd reflect on why others may see it differently than you, rather than putting barbs out, but that's up to you I suppose. Have a nice day.

 

Hmm... I noticed that, but you made the map cursor a notable priority, and the way that you worded the shop text colours (use of 'also', and the syntax) made it seem like an afterthought-level priority to you. Anyhow...

 

I ran the Misc Colours through some tests, using 2.50.2:
 
1. Setting Tab 4 ( Message Text ) to another colour, changed the default string text as intended. I added a shop, assigned the string, and it came out in red (my setting). It also changed the colour of the game over options (continue/save/retry) to red, and the DMap Intro text to red.

 

Thus this setting does properly affect all of the following:

• Strings (in shops, or otherwise)
• DMap Intro Text
• Continue Screen Text

* Note that 'shop' text is not differentiated from any other text in strings. If you want to keep shops one colour, and have other messages a different colour, then you will need to use SCCs to do one, or the other.

 

2. I set Tab 1 ( Text ) to green. This also worked, and changed the following to green:
 

• All passive subscreen text, including A/B characters over items, and all counter text, although these can be changed manually.
• DMap title (on subscreen)
• Time indicator (active subscreen)

 
3. I set Tab 1 ( Caption ) to blue. This properly affected the colours of text objects on the active subscreen (e.g. the word 'TRIFORCE').
 
All these subscreen objects use the attribute 'Misc Colour' setting in their subscreen attributes tab, to identify the source colour. Manually changing them is always an option, but the colours defined above became the defaults.
 
4. I set Tab 4 ( Link's Position ) to 65 (grey). This displayed a grey colour on the passive subscreen map. (I did not test it on the active subscreen dungeon map). I then put a ring on the screen, and gave it a colour palette assignment of '7'. (This would normally make Link, and the subscreen marker both red.) With the ring, Link was red, but the map marker was still grey. Thus...
 
I then changed it to colour 0x81 (orange), and the map marker correctly changed, so it is not limited to CSet 6, as I had thought it to be.
 
The colour for Link;s Position is fixed, and does not change with the item. I believe this may be an actual bug, but it's useful, and probably shouldn't be changed.
 
---
 Support Questions

• With what version of ZC are you encountering this problem?
• Are you using a new save slot to load your quest, after you change the colours?
• Did you enter the colour values manually, or click the colour swatch to set them?
• Are you using the 'Guys Always Appear in Cellars' Quest Rule(s)? *
  • * I tested it without that rule, with a guy on a normal screen.

 
---
 
From what I can tell, there is nothing wrong with the feature. Test File.

 

I also really see no point (or benefit) in debating your view on my offering things to people that I feel they might want. You clearly see it in a very different light than I see it, and than most other users typically see it. I'm going to keep this to a support topic, and if you want to discuss it in private, you always have that option.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 25 November 2015 - 08:40 AM.

[Mani Kanina]

 I ran the Misc Colours through some tests, using 2.50.2:
 
1. Setting Tab 4 ( Message Text ) to another colour, changed the default string text as intended. I added a shop, assigned the string, and it came out in red (my setting). It also changed the colour of the game over options (continue/save/retry) to red, and the DMap Intro text to red.
 

Thus this setting does properly affect all of the following:

• Strings (in shops, or otherwise)
• DMap Intro Text
• Continue Screen Text

* Note that 'shop' text is not differentiated from any other text in strings. If you want to keep shops one colour, and have other messages a different colour, then you will need to use SCCs to do one, or the other.

 

Weird, that's entirely different from my experience. Also, for clarity, I should state that when I say shop font colour, I mean the colour of the text for the: "x" sign after the rupee, and the numbers on the floor that show the prices. The string that plays when entering is never an issue, given that it was the desired colour before, and if not, I could always change it with string control code.

See, the continue screen text, default string text, and DMap intro text is white. (The colour I selected and want.) But the prices in shops is not. If that turned to red for you too then..., well, I have some sort of problem here.

 

2. I set Tab 1 ( Text ) to green. This also worked, and changed the following to green:

• All passive subscreen text, including A/B characters over items, and all counter text, although these can be changed manually.
• DMap title (on subscreen)
• Time indicator (active subscreen)

Mmmkay, it's good to know what these are, however, these are possible to define via the options for custom subscreens, so, let's ignore these for now.
 

4. I set Tab 4 ( Link's Position ) to 65 (grey). This displayed a grey colour on the passive subscreen map. (I did not test it on the active subscreen dungeon map). I then put a ring on the screen, and gave it a colour palette assignment of '7'. (This would normally make Link, and the subscreen marker both red.) With the ring, Link was red, but the map marker was still grey. Thus...
 
I then changed it to colour 0x81 (orange), and the map marker correctly changed, so it is not limited to CSet 6, as I had thought it to be.
 
The colour for Link;s Position is fixed, and does not change with the item. I believe this may be an actual bug, but it's useful, and probably shouldn't be changed.

Right, so it operated under the behaviour that I thought, but something went wrong on my end. Also, I don't believe this behaviour is a bug at all, it seems quite intended. If a quest author want to restrict this colour to the palette that get cycled when link gets a ring then they can do so.

However, this means that my issue with this option is tied to something else...
 

Support Questions

• With what version of ZC are you encountering this problem?
• Are you using a new save slot to load your quest, after you change the colours?
• Did you enter the colour values manually, or click the colour swatch to set them?
• Are you using the 'Guys Always Appear in Cellars' Quest Rule(s)? *
  • * I tested it without that rule, with a guy on a normal screen.

 

1. 2.50.2, I mentioned this in OP. That would be the latest public version that came out a few weeks ago.
2. I did not, and this could very well be my problem, I'll look into it with a new build when I have the time, and I'll edit/update this post once I have.
3. Manually.
4. I'll check when I have access to ZQ, but IIRC, no. It seems unlikely that it would affect things, however.

[Timelord]

Weird, that's entirely different from my experience. Also, for clarity, I should state that when I say shop font colour, I mean the colour of the text for the: "x" sign after the rupee, and the numbers on the floor that show the prices. The string that plays when entering is never an issue, given that it was the desired colour before, and if not, I could always change it with string control code.

See, the continue screen text, default string text, and DMap intro text is white. (The colour I selected and want.) But the prices in shops is not. If that turned to red for you too then..., well, I have some sort of problem here.

 
Oh crumbs. That wasn't clear, no, and that colour did not change, at all. I'm afraid that there's no setting for that. You might want to file a feature request for it, on AGN, so that the main devs, and the prospective/satellite devs, can consider it.
 
The only way that I know of, to change the price text colour, is to manually change colour 0x01 in your main palette; or to script it (either the shop, or just some drawing commands with a regular shop).
 
A very cheap way, if your shops have a black background, is to draw a black box, then use DrawString() to draw the prices where they would normally be on the screen in your desired font, and colour. If they don't have a black background, then it becomes trickier, but not impossible.
 
I should note that you can;t really use the ultra-easy way of drawing an ffc directly on the screen, as the text will appear over that, unless it's set to 'draw over', in which case, it will also draw over Link.
 
I can however, confirm that the prices are drawn from colour 0x01 (Cset 0, swatch 01), thus if you can sacrifice that colour swatch without too much havoc (perhaps CSet0 is overrated), then you can do it that way, but if you require that colour swatch, and need to change the font colour, those are your only realistic options.
 
 

If a quest author want to restrict this colour to the palette that get cycled when link gets a ring then they can do so.

 
With a palette change, aye. Otherwise, no. I may file a topic on adding an option to change it based on modifiers, but that's a very low priority type of feasture consideration.
 
I might not have been properly clear: I tried it on CSets 6, and 9, as well as CSet 8 but it never changes. As I said, I think that part may be a bug, as a bankswitched CSet, it should change.
 

However, this means that my issue with this option is tied to something else...

 
I'm going to guess it was the not having a fresh save slot part. Some of these options are stored in the save file when the quest first runs, and can;t be updated. Unlike the palette, which is dynamic, these values are often static, so try it again, but this time make a new save for it, and please report back.
 

1. 2.50.2, I mentioned this in OP. That would be the latest public version that came out a few weeks ago.

 
Sorry, I read that the first time, but I somehow lost track of it in me head. Good enough.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 25 November 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Mani Kanina]

Oh crumbs. That wasn't clear, no, and that colour did not change, at all. I'm afraid that there's no setting for that. You might want to file a feature request for it, on AGN, so that the main devs, and the prospective/satellite devs, can consider it.
 
The only way that I know of, to change the price text colour, is to manually change colour 0x01 in your main palette; or to script it (either the shop, or just some drawing commands with a regular shop).
  
I can however, confirm that the prices are drawn from colour 0x01 (Cset 0, swatch 01), thus if you can sacrifice that colour swatch without too much havoc (perhaps CSet0 is overrated), then you can do it that way, but if you require that colour swatch, and need to change the font colour, those are your only realistic options.

Right, my apologise, I guess I just wasn't clear enough with what I meant earlier.
 

I might not have been properly clear: I tried it on CSets 6, and 9, as well as CSet 8 but it never changes. As I said, I think that part may be a bug, as a bankswitched CSet, it should change.

I just got back from testing with a fresh save..., and, well, no dice. It is still 62 for me, and it DOES change colour when Link gets a new ring for me. I think we are dealing with a quest rule here. I did I quick glance over, but I can't see anything out of place.

[Timelord]

Right, my apologise, I guess I just wasn't clear enough with what I meant earlier.
 


I just got back from testing with a fresh save..., and, well, no dice. It is still 62 for me, and it DOES change colour when Link gets a new ring for me. I think we are dealing with a quest rule here. I did I quick glance over, but I can't see anything out of place.

 

Please take a moment, and load the sample test quest, and tell me if that does work properly for you.

[Mani Kanina]

Default was a set colour:


I changed it to 61, which seems to work correctly with the ring palette switch:


I changed it to 76 or something after that, which also seemed to work. No idea why this does not work in my quest.

[Timelord]

Default was a set colour:


I changed it to 61, which seems to work correctly with the ring palette switch:


I changed it to 76 or something after that, which also seemed to work. No idea why this does not work in my quest.

 

61 is the base default, so I would expect that to work, but I'll do some further checks later.

 

Have you tried the fresh save file?

[Mani Kanina]

You did not send any save file with that quest file so, so I made a new one, yes. If you mean my own quest then yes, I tried that with new save files.

[Saffith]

Is the minimap subscreen object set up correctly? It can be set to use colors other than the standard misc. colors.

[Mani Kanina]

Is the minimap subscreen object set up correctly? It can be set to use colors other than the standard misc. colors.

oh. I should have though about this earlier, this is, in fact, the solution! :o

While you're here though Saffith, maybe an option to change the font colour in shops, etc in the future? (On the text for rupee cost and the "x" next to the rupee.)



Well, this matter is resolved, wooo~