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Metroid Origins: Version 3.0-Help/Bug Reports


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#16 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 11:52 AM

Oh...you can't bomb jump at all in water...very nice touch. 

Sidehoppers jump off screen and disappear (die). Reminds me of the Metroid boss glitch from before.

Just did a ship refill...three energy tanks...warped to Alpha...in Initial drop...those blue flies don't seem to cause any damage at all. I took 32 damage one time only out of god knows how many hits going back and forth to test this.

Last observation for today. Its still possible to sequence break and beat Phantoon without the Varia Suit. I don't recall if this causes further sequence breaking down the road... but my best idea of preventing this happening at all is to make a atomizer wall in front of the SM door. Since you can't bomb jump in water now...the atomizer can't be obtained early as far as I can see....so this could work...?


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 27 June 2017 - 12:20 PM.


#17 ywkls

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 06:29 PM

In the beginning of the game...the waver enemy movements are....strange. First they're stuck on the left side of the screen....then flying along the bottom? 

The mini map doesn't seem to work...nor is the map sub screen recording any map details...but I didn't find a map station yet either. 

 

If you note my earlier replies, you'll see explanations for both of these phenomena. In summary, I haven't quite gotten those features of the script working right yet.

 

 

Ok....I noticed several bugs...one..the SM interface for weapons disappeared completely...I think it happened after a death. I can't even tell how many missiles I have, though I can still switch to and use them. The other is a bigger problem...the 65525 Metroid energy glitch is still there. Suddenly I can't use the Metroid.

 

That does sound like a problem. Probably an unanticipated result of how the Game Over script works. I'll look into it.

 

 

The energy glitch for the Metroid seems to occur when you come close to dying while the Metroid is active and its own energy is low. This is likely because it needs to drain your energy to keep going, but you don't have enough to actually give to it...so it causes a bizarre, endless loop. Refilling at the ship fixes this (maybe also a energy station too) but the fact it still occurs is a issue.


I should also mention I'm playing with double enemy HP and double damage taken

 

I'm not entirely sure how to prevent the glitch with the Metroid HP, except to disallow summoning it if your health is too low. This may also be another case of not having enough checks and balances in the script.

 

Also... just so you know; I have checked nothing relating to the Double HP and Double Damage settings, because I'm a wimp.

 

 

 

A suggestion...the ship itself does not become a warp point until you examine it. I remember this from my very first play through. Especially now, given that the ship at least temporarily fixes the glitches so you can still play and continue without becoming permastuck....is there a way to make it a default warp point for the absent minded gamer who doesn't examine it first thing when they begin playing (like I did that one time)?

 

Well, the game's default warp point is actually the title screen. I'm not sure how to set it up where the ship automatically becomes the main save point once you reach it, but I'll see if I can come up with something.

 

Oh...you can't bomb jump at all in water...very nice touch. 

 

Credit goes to my Super Metroid remake for the inclusion of that.

 

 

 

Sidehoppers jump off screen and disappear (die). Reminds me of the Metroid boss glitch from before.

 

I may not have placed the flags that spawn them at the correct height where they don't slip through the floor. I'll have to go back and check that.

 

Speaking of which, there's a major bug relating to the Final Metroid boss partway through the game. It is going to require some work to fix, but basically it boils down to this- if the Ice Beam forms a block near the floor, it is possible to fall off the bottom of the screen.

 

If that happens, you can go left, up and right to warp back where you were.

 

I'll probably be reworking the Ice Beam soon to keep this from happening.

 

Also, that boss is much harder than it should be and will probably be undergoing a rewrite before too long.

 

 

 

Last observation for today. Its still possible to sequence break and beat Phantoon without the Varia Suit. I don't recall if this causes further sequence breaking down the road... but my best idea of preventing this happening at all is to make a atomizer wall in front of the SM door. Since you can't bomb jump in water now...the atomizer can't be obtained early as far as I can see....so this could work...?

 

The only real obstacle to proceeding through the whole game without the Varia Suit is Crocomire, who fights you in a hot room. The sequence break you mentioned is one I know of and accept as part of the game.

 

The atomizer isn't locked behind the Gravity Suit, so that method wouldn't work. The Diffusion Missiles are, however... but you're supposed to be at Phantoon before that anyways.

 

There's also a bit more non-linearity to the game.



#18 ywkls

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 12:07 AM

Quest file has been updated with the following fixes:

 

Fixed enemy placement for Sidehoppers, Dessgeegas.
Fixed ice beam destroying floors.
Attempted fix for Metroid HP rollover. This will take testing to see if it works.
 
I don't know why the Game Over might have messed things up, since it doesn't seem to be affecting any of the things which might alter whether or not the icons show up. It if happens again, please report the exact circumstances under which it occurs.
 
I'll try and get the interface set up to allow disabling the Hyper Grip at will by tomorrow.


#19 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 03:55 PM

I'm gonna continue right now. 

When I mentioned the side hoppers...I meant they are able to jump (move) off of the side of the screen thru normal means. I haven't noticed them appearing under the floor again...but if it was happening...

I'll specifically test the Metroid Rollover since I'm the one who keeps finding it.

You need specific circumstances? I can think of one thing I left out yesterday...the deaths that occurred to make the missile icons disappear occurred in the Norfair area of the game. I don't recall if this happened in Brinstar or Crateria sections or not...Only that warping back to the ship restored them. Warping back to Alpha, did not.



#20 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:10 PM

Ok. The Metroid seems to be almost completely fixed. If it runs out of energy, it disappears...if you resummon it...you give nine energy to refill it to 99 (only tested with larva metroid). If you don't have enough energy (not that this is a big inconvenience, with the cost being only 9 units), you can't resummon. One glitch...I noticed by summoning and dismissing continuously. When the Metroid's energy is at 009 and dismissed...you can't summon it again whether you have the energy or not. That's the only circumstance where you'd have to refill at a station to summon it again. This situation is extremely unlikely and rare, but it does still exist. I'm not sure how high of a priority this would be to you.

Alpha warp...initial drop...leave save station...side hopper near the top immediately jumps/moves to the left and off the screen...hence killing it. The blue flies in initial drop still do no damage whatsoever.

Weapon Icons on screen still disappear when dying. Specifically...they disappear as soon as you take the hit that kills you and the screen starts to black out. If you last saved anywhere besides the ship...they will stay gone until you warp back. This is Brinstar area too. I forgot to mention the Metroid animation on the top screen is also gone....though its energy is still displayed. I also noticed that if you save and quit, then reload...the icons and ammunition counts are still invisible...but they still reappear as soon as you warp back to the ship again. I can't be the only one seeing this. 

East Barricade...there's something glitchy about going up that elevator....at the top...even when I left the elevator...somehow I was still in the elevator 'sequence'. I had to step on and off of it again to move back to the normal map screen. PS...no triggers respond in the elevator sequence....atomizer, red and blue doors don't react to anything.

Phantoon...I think I noticed a glitch...is it possible to kill him too quickly? I hit him with 9 super missiles first time he appeared (double HP mode)...and he's not reappearing. Two flames appeared that beams disappear on when shot...and I can get hurt...and I constantly hear sounds of him dropping flames...but nothing else happens. Suicide seems to be the only solution here. This reminds me of one shotting Kraid with the Hyper Beam in his first form of SM and crashing the game.
Ok...Nine Super's specifically triggers him disappearing...and two flames appeared in the same exact location each time...but even playing around...he seems to NEVER die. I still can't beat him. I found where to use the Quantum Key. I'm not trying to sequence break Phantoon now. Either he's immortal...or three energy tanks, and ten super missiles isn't enough without the Varia.

I'll move on for now
First off...dying in Ice area...gives no continue options at all. It directs you immediately back to the ZC file selection.
Or rather....it did once...the boss battle still gave me options. Did I miss something here?

Edit...I allowed the engine fire blocking the door to kill me when it threw me back to the file screen. It may be related to that particular screen.

 


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 28 June 2017 - 05:54 PM.


#21 chocobothief12

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:31 PM

phantoon takes 8 super missiles in normal hp mode. you have enough time to get them in before the first time it disappears.

 

I should probably spend more time dying instead of speedrunning the game like i normally do and finding only the small errors.


Edited by chocobothief12, 28 June 2017 - 08:34 PM.


#22 ywkls

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 10:18 PM

When I mentioned the side hoppers...I meant they are able to jump (move) off of the side of the screen thru normal means. I haven't noticed them appearing under the floor again...but if it was happening...

 

There's nothing in the code to prevent those enemies from jumping off the left or right side of the screen (or top or bottom). In fact, exactly the opposite. There's a particular section of ghost.zh where I can flag an enemy as to whether or not it can move offscreen, and it's set on these to allow them to do that.

 

If this behavior isn't something which seems natural, let me know.

 

Ok. The Metroid seems to be almost completely fixed. If it runs out of energy, it disappears...if you resummon it...you give nine energy to refill it to 99 (only tested with larva metroid). If you don't have enough energy (not that this is a big inconvenience, with the cost being only 9 units), you can't resummon. One glitch...I noticed by summoning and dismissing continuously. When the Metroid's energy is at 009 and dismissed...you can't summon it again whether you have the energy or not. That's the only circumstance where you'd have to refill at a station to summon it again. This situation is extremely unlikely and rare, but it does still exist. I'm not sure how high of a priority this would be to you.

 

This is actually by design. The Metroid can't be summoned unless it has enough current HP to lose 9 HP when summoned. This is because I arbitrarily designated 9 HP as the amount it cost to summon it each time, as well as how much HP it loses periodically while summoned.

 

The purpose of these restrictions is mainly to keep it from being used all the time.

 

 

 

Weapon Icons on screen still disappear when dying. Specifically...they disappear as soon as you take the hit that kills you and the screen starts to black out. If you last saved anywhere besides the ship...they will stay gone until you warp back. This is Brinstar area too. I forgot to mention the Metroid animation on the top screen is also gone....though its energy is still displayed. I also noticed that if you save and quit, then reload...the icons and ammunition counts are still invisible...but they still reappear as soon as you warp back to the ship again. I can't be the only one seeing this. 

 

The part where they disappear while you are dying should be happening. Not reappearing afterward shouldn't. The only thing I can think of which might be causing this is the fact that the icons don't run unless Link->HP is greater than 2. However, since a lot of other stuff shouldn't run if that's the case, I have no idea why that's the only thing which is malfunctioning.

 

Other things that should be malfunctioning under the same circumstances are the game's timer, the subscreen and the minimap system. If they're working and the icons aren't, that's super-weird. If they're not working, then that is what I'd expect and probably stems from the same cause.

 

 

 

East Barricade...there's something glitchy about going up that elevator....at the top...even when I left the elevator...somehow I was still in the elevator 'sequence'. I had to step on and off of it again to move back to the normal map screen. PS...no triggers respond in the elevator sequence....atomizer, red and blue doors don't react to anything.

 

The reason nothing reacts is because the scripts for the barriers don't exist on the elevator screen. My only guess as to why you were stuck in that area would be that for some reason you didn't trigger the direct warps on that screen which teleport you to the actual area. Which is probably my fault, since the only combos on that screen which warp you are directly next to the elevator. This should be fixed now.

 

 

 

Phantoon...I think I noticed a glitch...is it possible to kill him too quickly? I hit him with 9 super missiles first time he appeared (double HP mode)...and he's not reappearing. Two flames appeared that beams disappear on when shot...and I can get hurt...and I constantly hear sounds of him dropping flames...but nothing else happens. Suicide seems to be the only solution here. This reminds me of one shotting Kraid with the Hyper Beam in his first form of SM and crashing the game.
Ok...Nine Super's specifically triggers him disappearing...and two flames appeared in the same exact location each time...but even playing around...he seems to NEVER die. I still can't beat him. I found where to use the Quantum Key. I'm not trying to sequence break Phantoon now. Either he's immortal...or three energy tanks, and ten super missiles isn't enough without the Varia.

 

I'll probably have to experiment with him in double HP mode to see what's going on. Off the top of my head, the most likely explanation is this: he's programmed to change behavior once he reaches half HP. To accomplish this, the script saves his health whenever he's created. However, the alteration of his HP to double almost certainly takes place on the next frame. Which means that things might get weird somewhere along the way.

 

I can think of a simple solution, if that is the case.

 

 

 

First off...dying in Ice area...gives no continue options at all. It directs you immediately back to the ZC file selection.
Or rather....it did once...the boss battle still gave me options. Did I miss something here?

Edit...I allowed the engine fire blocking the door to kill me when it threw me back to the file screen. It may be related to that particular screen.

 

So, if I'm understanding you correctly; the main regions (ice and ship) didn't allow you to continue when you died, but the boss battles did? This sounds like another glitch related to the Game Over script. It's supposed to warp you to a specific screen upon dying, but I hadn't tested to ensure it functioned in the new area and the additional DMaps for those regions are located numerically in the quest around the DMap where the Game Over menu runs.

 

I'll get to work on testing possible solutions to these problems tomorrow.



#23 chocobothief12

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 12:38 AM

started a new file with the last update and finished phantoon with the double damage and HP on. 15 super missiles was enough to kill it, with 7 shot on the first appearance, and 8 on the second. 



#24 chocobothief12

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 02:49 AM

http://imgur.com/a/RTRl4

 

theres an invisible wall where the gate used to be and it wont let me pass. this wasnt a problem with the older version so something new must have come up when you fixed the terminals

 

edit: actually, the room leading into that has a bunch of invisible blocks in the space above the doorway. theres a single space to morph through but it is very finicky to get through. I also found another one of those blocks in the morph ball tunnel leading to one of the other terminals after shutting off the engine


Edited by chocobothief12, 29 June 2017 - 02:57 AM.


#25 Epsalon ZX

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 03:10 AM

Fell asleep during testing. Continuing now.

Side hoppers should not be able to jump off screen at all...but on that note...super Metroid itself....isn't segmented into screens so there is no way for them to jump off screen to begin with. You said you can flip it on and off...so simply reverse it and problem is solved.

Let me double check that the other things aren't disappearing too...
Ok...Mini map, timer and examination icon still show... Its specifically the SM ammunition items (and their counters, ps I have the xray too), the Metroid and Atomizer (though everything is still usable...Metroid energy level still shows.)

Its ironic you say you don't want the Metroid overused....because before you put in the short cut...I rarely used it. That said....A suggestion. When you receive a upgrade to it...;increase the cost. Not proportionate to the energy increase...but maybe half. For example...since your Metroid energy is doubled when you get the fire metroid....make it cost 14 or 15 instead of 9 or 20. In fact....Just make it 15 for the first upgrade and 30 for the second upgrade....that is provided though...that it doesn't fuck up your entire script and create the glitches again. Also a suggestion...since at 009 it can't be summoned even with your energy...make a means to recover metroid energy besides it attacking and using refill stations. My idea here is 1 Metroid energy with each small energy unit picked up....and 5 Metroid energy for larger ones. 

The game automatically quitting...I think is only the room with jet fire blocking the one door. I could be wrong here. I agree that area needs more testing.

Edit: I'm almost positive its that room with the jet fire. Even with the varia and almost full health...the fire ended up being a instant kill...and brought me straight to the save/load part of ZC itself.

Choco...I think detail oriented runs are more my role at this point while speed running and catching the occasional casual glitch is yours. Your name of Chocobo is rightly earned. LOL

 

But you and Ywk helped me figure out the part of the Phantoon issue. Since he changes behavior when he's half killed....half killing him the first time he appears seems to be what causes his bizarre behavior. That said....Five...possibly four super missiles in regular mode should trigger the same glitch.


Edited by Epsalon ZX, 29 June 2017 - 06:19 AM.


#26 ywkls

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 09:53 AM

http://imgur.com/a/RTRl4

 

theres an invisible wall where the gate used to be and it wont let me pass. this wasnt a problem with the older version so something new must have come up when you fixed the terminals

 

 

 

Did you by chance die or save and quit at some point between activating the terminals and going to that room? Or do one of those things afterwards?

 

The removal of the barriers relies on scripted behavior that resets when you load a saved game file. The best workaround I can see is to have it where a global variable is set that auto-removes the correct barrier if it is supposed to be gone.

 

 

 

 

edit: actually, the room leading into that has a bunch of invisible blocks in the space above the doorway. theres a single space to morph through but it is very finicky to get through. I also found another one of those blocks in the morph ball tunnel leading to one of the other terminals after shutting off the engine

 

I'm not sure which room you're referring to here? The one to the left or right? A screenshot would be useful.

 

Side hoppers should not be able to jump off screen at all...but on that note...super Metroid itself....isn't segmented into screens so there is no way for them to jump off screen to begin with. You said you can flip it on and off...so simply reverse it and problem is solved.

 

Done.

 

 

Let me double check that the other things aren't disappearing too...
Ok...Mini map, timer and examination icon still show... Its specifically the SM ammunition items (and their counters, ps I have the xray too), the Metroid and Atomizer (though everything is still usable...Metroid energy level still shows.)

 

I'm going to run a quick test by dying and seeing what Link's HP becomes afterwards. From what I understand, of the displayed icons; only the missile isn't showing. That's very odd indeed.

 

 

Its ironic you say you don't want the Metroid overused....because before you put in the short cut...I rarely used it. That said....A suggestion. When you receive a upgrade to it...;increase the cost. Not proportionate to the energy increase...but maybe half. For example...since your Metroid energy is doubled when you get the fire metroid....make it cost 14 or 15 instead of 9 or 20. In fact....Just make it 15 for the first upgrade and 30 for the second upgrade....that is provided though...that it doesn't fuck up your entire script and create the glitches again. Also a suggestion...since at 009 it can't be summoned even with your energy...make a means to recover metroid energy besides it attacking and using refill stations. My idea here is 1 Metroid energy with each small energy unit picked up....and 5 Metroid energy for larger ones. 

 

Having the drain increase as it levels up is certainly a good idea, though I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement.

 

 

The game automatically quitting...I think is only the room with jet fire blocking the one door. I could be wrong here. I agree that area needs more testing.


Edit: I'm almost positive its that room with the jet fire. Even with the varia and almost full health...the fire ended up being a instant kill...and brought me straight to the save/load part of ZC itself.

 

That's probably because the jet fire script drains Link's HP directly rather than affecting the health counter. Since it's doing this every frame, that means he's dying again during the time the game over script is supposed to be running.

 

Is that also the area which is triggering the loss of the icons? If so, the two may be related.

 

 

But you and Ywk helped me figure out the part of the Phantoon issue. Since he changes behavior when he's half killed....half killing him the first time he appears seems to be what causes his bizarre behavior. That said....Five...possibly four super missiles in regular mode should trigger the same glitch.

 

I'll have to test this, though I usually can't hit him fast enough to succeed in that.



#27 ywkls

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 10:32 AM

Alright, I've checked what happens during a game over and I've confirmed that if you're being hit by certain types of attacks, you can still die while you're dying. (Ironic, isn't it?)

 

Since the standard Game Over script does a number of things which interfere with you using items (to prevent you from doing that while dying), losing all your health during a Game Over is almost certainly behind these oddities which have been reported.

 

So, I changed all the scripts that affect Link's HP directly (the flame jet, the hot rooms and the lava field in Mother Brain's room)not to be active while you're dying. (As an interesting side note, I discovered that it was possible to summon the Metroid while you were dying. I don't know why, but it should be easy enough to prevent.)

 

The file is now updated with this change, along with the alteration to the flags for the Sideview Jumpers. I should note on that front; however, that the Inverse (upside-down) jumpers never had this flag checked but could still jump offscreen. So, my changes may not prevent that and in fact; it may not be something I can stop.

 

The next thing I'm going to do is figure out how to make the disappearance of those security barriers persist.

 

Also, there's a small glitch I'm aware of with the Ice Beam script where it is possible for the platforms to persist long after they should be destroyed. I'm unsure how to fix it as yet, but I'm definitely working on it.


Edited by ywkls, 29 June 2017 - 10:33 AM.


#28 ywkls

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 11:08 AM

Hyper Grip can now be switched on and off from the subscreen. (You're welcome.)

I'm not bothering with most of the other items since this is the only one I consistently wanted to have this feature.

Also, I've changed the order of some of the internal scripts where a lot more things won't run during the Game Over.

This shouldn't have any effect on how gameplay works, but if it does; I need to know.


Edited by ywkls, 29 June 2017 - 11:08 AM.


#29 chocobothief12

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 02:00 PM

http://imgur.com/a/f58eH

 

this was the room that i meant. sorry. 

though getting back here a second time had a different result. the way was clear while i didnt unlock the full gate in the room to the left, but once i turned off the engine and entered the invisible gate room, thats when the wall in the picture suddenly went invisible too. now instead of invisible blocks above samus, it made a wall above the platform and now im completely stuck



#30 ywkls

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 09:23 PM

this was the room that i meant. sorry. 

though getting back here a second time had a different result. the way was clear while i didnt unlock the full gate in the room to the left, but once i turned off the engine and entered the invisible gate room, thats when the wall in the picture suddenly went invisible too. now instead of invisible blocks above samus, it made a wall above the platform and now im completely stuck

That's... weird. The only things that should be affecting that room are the two door scripts and the one that runs the trooper at the bottom of the screen. There is literally nothing else in that area.

 

I think I might need to play through up to that point in an effort to see if it happens to me as well. Maybe then, I can have a better grasp of why it's taking place.




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