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What happened to Dance of Remembrance?


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#1 P-Tux7

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:37 AM

You know how there was supposed to be a quest to go with the DoR tileset? What happened to it?


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#2 Russ

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 02:45 PM

Like most of the big "epic" quests, it was too ambitious for its own good. If I recall right, it went through a lengthy development cycle, with Radien scrapping ideas and redoing them, revamping the tileset multiple times (he at one point was building it in an exclusive DoR 3.0 if memory serves), and the like. The problem with this kind of development is that the end goal is too far off, and it becomes way too easy to get stuck in a never-ending cycle of improving and redoing that hinders progress towards completion. This is what I imagine happened to Radien initially. Then he had a stroke. While he recovered fine, he kinda drifted away from the site at that point; he came back briefly last year, but disappeared again shortly thereafter.

There's a moral to this story. Don't get too ambitious. Make sure, when you plan out a quest, you can actually finish it, and don't get caught in the endless cycle of redoing older work cuz it doesn't fit your new standards. Improving bad areas is one thing, but it's easy to get swept away.
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#3 Sheik

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:22 PM

But let's not be too moralistic and keep in mind that the fun in the making, too, and finishing the project is not all that there is to the thing. Radien's effort, for the record, left us with one of the most well-received tilesets in ZC history.


Edited by Sheik, 23 April 2018 - 03:30 PM.

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#4 Moosh

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:09 PM

Radien's effort, for the record, left us with one of the most well-received tilesets in ZC history.

But let's not get under moralistic and keep in mind that the tileset was so well-received in part because it was a complete and usable product. I'd say the destination in that particular case was definitely more important than the journey. :P

 

There's nothing wrong with making a quest just for fun, though. That's how I do everything pretty much. It's also why I don't tend to make quest projects, because I don't have too much confidence in anything I work on.



#5 Geoffrey

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:22 PM

It danced out of remembrance.  :awesome:  :awesome:


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#6 Russ

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:06 PM

But let's not be too moralistic and keep in mind that the fun in the making, too, and finishing the project is not all that there is to the thing. Radien's effort, for the record, left us with one of the most well-received tilesets in ZC history.

Right. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to trash people who just make screens in the editor fun. I know you've mentioned that you just like building stuff without the intention of finishing, and that's fine. My comment was aimed more at people who really want to finish a quest but unknowingly set themselves up for failure at the beginning, which I've seen happen fairly frequently.
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#7 Sheik

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:32 AM

But "setting yourself up to failure" sounds so disheartening. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong about "dreaming big", i.e. making plans for the biggest thing conceivable. It's a vision/ a phantasy and as such might as well be unrealistic - especially given how "unimportant" all of this is being just a hobby and such. That's part of what's fun about it.

I don't mind, by the way, people frequently opening quest projects and shutting them down subsequently. I'd love to follow one of your projects, Moosh, for example. That's like letting somebody in on your phantasy and telling them "look, this is what I envision, do you think it looks enjoyable?". The "hype" some people tend to generate is enjoyable for some, there's a real pleasure in anticipating new updates etc.

And all of this crumbling down from time to time because it wasn't "set up for success", i.e. wasn't planned with too much regard to real possibilities is a valuable experience in and of itself. It is nice to know that I have failed in quest making a hundred times and neither has the world stopped turning nor have I lost the fun in this thing that I keep failing in, i.e. questmaking. There's not too much at stake in all of this, but there's real fun to be had, so precautions (and killjoys!) really aren't that warranted here. There's definately no reason to be guilt-ridden (or blaming) about any of this for sure, especially.

So that's my two rupees on this.


Edited by Sheik, 24 April 2018 - 08:47 AM.

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#8 P-Tux7

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 01:13 AM

By the way, in the topic where he talks about his stroke he says that he is planning to come back to ZC. What happened to that?



#9 Rambly

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 06:40 AM

fwiw, radien's still alive/doing ok more or less. we occasionally (very loosely and casually, in a chat we're both in) talk to each other still, although not really about ZC...

radien was working on something with scootaloo (a zelda 2 ... remakey thing) but that kinda fell through. last check-in radien posted about how they don't have a proper computer rn so that's probably at least part of why progress has been slow

 

And all of this crumbling down from time to time because it wasn't "set up for success", i.e. wasn't planned with too much regard to real possibilities is a valuable experience in and of itself. It is nice to know that I have failed in quest making a hundred times and neither has the world stopped turning nor have I lost the fun in this thing that I keep failing in, i.e. questmaking. There's not too much at stake in all of this, but there's real fun to be had, so precautions (and killjoys!) really aren't that warranted here. There's definately no reason to be guilt-ridden (or blaming) about any of this for sure, especially.

true true, especially the part about not feeling guilt-ridden. honestly holding yourself to feeling like you need to finish something is a good way to hamper productivity anyway. take it from me, mademoiselle "still feels guilty for not making a proper followup or any sort of quest really after IHM2 and whose productivity has completely deadlocked as a result". but then i remember i've had fun making stuff and if nothing else accumulated a ton of neat game design ideas in the time since

#10 Radien

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 06:33 PM

Hi there. Radien here. I know I've been absent for awhile, and when I post people tend to make a big deal out of it due to that absence, but P-Tux messaged me on Discord and asked a question which led me here.

Please don't speculate answers on Dance of Remembrance that are simply the same as everything else that's gone into “development hell” here. I'll do my best to answer myself.

--

First of all, the original question: what happened to Dance of Remembrance?

Well, to answer that I have to get into my personal life. I'll try to make it short.

Back in 2010, I had a medical event that severely interrupted my life. Specifically, a stroke. I was only 30, and as a consequence I had to relearn how to walk, spending nearly six months doing inpatient physical rehab.

each stroke is potentially different, and my symptoms were not the same as most people associate with the idea. I had no vision loss or speech loss (although it did give me permanent double vision) — it hit me on the balance centers of the brain which also control spatial abilities.

Though I have regained most of my faculties, there was a time when I couldn't even look at a simple computer desktop screen without the room spinning. These days, I'm capable of doing those things, but they leave me rather tired. It's the same reason I don't do much novel reading anymore.

The second thing that happened was basically the rest of life. After my stroke I met a girl online from California. We started dating, I visited her and she visited me, culminating in a trip where I proposed to her at Disneyland. I moved out of my parents and in with her, started working again, and began trying to build a life.

Amidst it all, I've had computer troubles. The first computer I used for ZC went kaput. Thankfully I was able to rescue a copy of DoR. I went without a computer for about a year because I couldn't afford a new one. I eventually figured out a way to get one, but then a software problem made it so slow it was effectively unusable for a long time.

Now I have yet ANOTHER computer, but I've gone so long without one that I feel rusty. I mostly use my phone instead, and I wish it could do ZC and all that other stuff, but ZC has changed so much that I'm really not even sure where to start.

I love Dance of Remembrance, and I want to finish it someday. I was especially pleased when I saw some of my ideas about game progression implemented in the officially series, with the non-linear structure of Link Between Worlds and Breath of the Wild, and especially the flashback storytelling of the latter. But I've had a long journey of my own, and I haven't even mentioned a couple VERY major life events.

If any of you want to contact me, look for S.t.e.v.e U.n.f.r.e.d on Facebook, after removing the periods (I'm trying to keep my real name mostly off Google for professional reasons). I respond quickly there. Or maybe we could create a Facebook direct message group for tileset Q&A if there are enough people for it.

Take care, everybody. I want you all to enjoy ZC. Please don't be cynical about quests coming out. I started off doing this completely in private, not even knowing there was a community.

If you do it yourself, do it for fun. :)
Oh, I got so caught up I didn't answer the second question: is there a DoR 3.0?

The answer is no, but let me address the misunderstanding. When I made DoR tileset version 1, I branched it off from the quest, organizing it for public use and nixing all the nitty gritty tricks and tweaks from the DoR quest that would've just been confusing.

For DoR tileset version 2, anything I took from the DoR quest proper was screenshotted and ripped into the 1.92 tileset QST file, to maintain as much user friendliness as possible.

Yes, I have added things to the quest that are not in the tileset, some of which are require ZC 2.5, but were never released. I'm going to have to ask you all to respect my privacy and let me have this small chunk of stuff to myself as unique to DoR. I've released more than half of the content I've ripped, customized, or drawn for DoR, plus dozens of loose tile submissions that were made specifically to be useful to everybody else even if I didn't need them. Consequently, I want something unique waiting for me, should I find it in myself to finish Dance of Remembrance and bring you the adventure I envisioned for Serenia.
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