103 replies to this topic

[trudatman]

you can be put away for smiling on a cloudy day.

[Neppy]

Even so, I still don't believe in it. It's personal. I felt disgusted one time when my cousin told me that I was "brainwashed" because I don't drink. For me, there are other ways to have "fun" without alcohol.

That's absolutely ridiculous... I know plenty of people that don't drink, and won't either. Nothing wrong with that at all. I don't understand why some people think everyone has to drink...

[NoeL]

NoeL, you're basically saying that its a necessity to drink whether or not to judge whether alcohol is okay.

No, it's a necessity to drink before you can make a proper judgement as to whether or not it's fun to drink.

I don't need to drink to experience it.

Yes, you do (or at least do/take something else that simulates the effects of alcohol). You can't experience the effects of something unless you actually experience those effects.

After witnessing several alcohol-related incidents and the fact that I despise people who act crazy and do stupid things under the influence of alcohol, it's clear that this is something I should stay away or not be a victim of. I don't care how long social drinking dates back from. I do not f up my body because of this.

Apples and oranges. Not liking the look of something from the outside doesn't mean it's not enjoyable from the inside. I hate dealing with drunk people - they're loud, they slur their words, they stumble around, and they are f***ing annoying. That said, I very much enjoy being one of those drunk people (though I try to be courteous and not so annoying). When I'm drunk, other drunk people are no longer annoying. When I'm drunk I can stumble around, talk loudly, slur my words, and enjoy myself doing so. Because I no longer care. Those little things that would normally piss me off, like someone talking loudly, no longer bother me. I'm having fun.

Also, drinking in moderation doesn't "f up [your] body". Your body can handle the occasional bender - it's only when you drink so often your body doesn't have the time to get back to normal that problems arise, like liver failure. Even cocaine - that big scary drug everyone warned you about - is harmless in moderation. It has no long-term side effects, making it even LESS dangerous than alcohol in that respect (though it's much easier to overdose on it, making it riskier to take recreationally).

Edited by NoeL, 18 October 2011 - 02:28 AM.

[Shane]

After this topic sprung up I've been thinking about it, I decided and promised myself not to drink alcohol when I'm over the age limit (18) and no, I'm not drinking just to make a "proper judgment" otherwise I broke my promise witch is far more important then making a "proper judgment" in my eyes.

When I'm drunk I can stumble around, talk loudly, slur my words, and enjoy myself doing so. Because I no longer care. Those little things that would normally piss me off, like someone talking loudly, no longer bother me. I'm having fun.

I believe it's only fun only because your not getting annoyed. That wouldn't, in my opinion, be qualified as "fun" more like "I'm not getting annoyed". I don't understand how talking loud, slur words make you happy and have "fun" but I do understand that not being annoyed makes you happy and have "fun".

Edited by Shane, 18 October 2011 - 03:04 AM.

[NoeL]

After this topic sprung up I've been thinking about it, I decided and promised myself not to drink alcohol when I'm over the age limit (18) and no, I'm not drinking just to make a "proper judgment" otherwise I broke my promise witch is far more important then making a "proper judgment" in my eyes.

Wouldn't it be wiser, then, to not make such a promise until after you've experienced the effects of alcohol?

I believe it's only fun only because your not getting annoyed. That wouldn't, in my opinion, be qualified as "fun" more like "I'm not getting annoyed". I don't understand how talking loud, slur words make you happy and have "fun" but I do understand that not being annoyed makes you happy and have "fun".

It's not that talking loud and slurring my words is giving me joy, they're just things that accompany the joy.

Let me use an example you might be able to relate to: exercise. Let's say, for the sake of analogy, exhausted people are annoying - they're sweaty, they're smelly, they breathe loudly, they're hard to talk to because of the heavy breathing, etc. Now let's say you verse your friend in laser tag, or DDR, or basketball, or some activity that is both fun and exhausting. At the end of it all, you don't care that your friend is sweaty and smelly and breathing heavily, because you're having fun doing whatever fun thing you were doing. It's not fun because these things are no longer annoying, they're no longer annoying because you're having fun.

Edited by NoeL, 18 October 2011 - 03:16 AM.

[Shane]

Wouldn't it be wiser, then, to not make such a promise until after you've experienced the effects of alcohol?

That idea may be certainly wise, I'll admit but, I'm not taking alcohol knowing it could potentially kill someone if you at the wrong time, place and people even if you drink it once, it could happen. I think promising before drinking is wise.

It's not that talking loud and slurring my words is giving me joy, they're just things that accompany the joy.

Let me use an example you might be able to relate to: exercise. Let's say, for the sake of analogy, exhausted people are annoying - they're sweaty, they're smelly, they breathe loudly, they're hard to talk to because of the heavy breathing, etc. Now let's say you verse your friend in laser tag, or DDR, or basketball, or some activity that is both fun and exhausting. At the end of it all, you don't care that your friend is sweaty and smelly and breathing heavily, because you're having fun doing whatever fun thing you were doing. It's not fun because these things are no longer annoying, they're no longer annoying because you're having fun.

Well that is pretty much a nice example but I'll still find it annoying if their breathing loudly etc. while trying to have fun because this still doesn't change the fact that you can't talk to them as said in your example.

Edited by Shane, 18 October 2011 - 03:24 AM.

[NoeL]

That idea may be certainly wise, I'll admit but, I'm not taking alcohol knowing it could potentially kill someone if you at the wrong time, place and people even if you drink it once, it could happen. I think promising before drinking is wise.

That's just silly though. Are you going to never go on a roller coaster because it could come off the tracks? Are you never going to bungee jump because it could snap? Are you never going to drive because you could get in an accident? Are you never going to eat because you could choke?

You're seriously worried about killing someone? Really? To me it sounds like you've bought into a lot of crazy propaganda and now have this expectation of an unreasonably high degree of risk associated with drinking alcohol. If you're in a safe environment, at home with your friends or something, you're not going to wake up covered in your best friend's blood with no recollection of the night before. The only "bad" things that will happen is you'll be a bit "laggy" and unbalanced - that's it. You'll probably be more f***ed up after spinning around ten times than you'll ever be after drinking. You're not going to turn into Mr. Hyde or something ridiculous.

Well that is pretty much a nice example but I'll still find it annoying if their breathing loudly etc. while trying to have fun because this still doesn't change the fact that you can't talk to them as said in your example.

That's one of the mysteries of drinking - drunk people have no problem understanding other drunk people. It only sounds like incoherent rambling to sober people

Edited by NoeL, 18 October 2011 - 03:48 AM.

[Shane]

That's just silly though.

Better safe then sorry.

Are you going to never go on a roller coaster because it could come off the tracks?

With the exception of my fear with heights, yes.

Are you never going to bungee jump because it could snap?

Again with the exception with my fear with heights, yes.

Are you never going to drive because you could get in an accident?

I will drive for useful reasons and not just for the sake of just doing it such as the first two examples. But besides that yes I am scared that I might kill someone whether outside and inside the car but if I injure myself it won't be as bad as falling off a roller coaster high up or splat onto the ground if the bungee cord snapped, but this depends on the accident.

Are you never going to eat because you could choke?

That one is a little far fetched no offense but I would rather eat then starve. And the only way I could see someone choking is if you scoff my food down as soon as there is food on the plate, in witch I don't do that, so yeah I'm not afraid of chocking.

Edited by Shane, 18 October 2011 - 04:27 AM.

[Giggidy]

Edit: Social drinking actually is in fact one of the oldest traditions of humankind.

So is genocide, taxation, and the bagpipe. Something being old doesn't mean it's good.


As for those (mostly NoeL I think) saying "You can't knock it until you've tried it!"

I have a big problem with that argument: I've never slashed my wrists either, does that mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion over how much fun it is to do such a thing?

I have watched others get drunk/high and I have imagined myself getting drunk/high and I don't like what I see one bit. "Trying" them to see what they're like seems only slightly more intelligent than jumping in front of a bus to confirm whether or not hell exists. My problem is you're saying I should ignore my judgment on this matter because "you can't know until you've tried!"

[Dawnlight]

NoeL, the problem with what you said is you interpret alcohol is all smiles and sunshine. While you can handle it, others may not. Addiction is one common problem when it comes to alcoholism. This is one reason why people do all these stupid things. Some cannot control their addiction and you're saying its alright for them continue to mess up their bodies because of it? While you can explain all the positive notes about alcohol and persuade me to drink, you cannot deny that alcohol is addictive just like any other drug. The amount of incidents that occur under the influence of alcohol speak for themselves.

[Radien]

As for those (mostly NoeL I think) saying "You can't knock it until you've tried it!"

I have a big problem with that argument: I've never slashed my wrists either, does that mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion over how much fun it is to do such a thing?

I have watched others get drunk/high and I have imagined myself getting drunk/high and I don't like what I see one bit. "Trying" them to see what they're like seems only slightly more intelligent than jumping in front of a bus to confirm whether or not hell exists. My problem is you're saying I should ignore my judgment on this matter because "you can't know until you've tried!"

This. I totally agree.

I feel that people who say "you CAN'T judge until you've tried it" are just making excuses for the existence of people who don't share the same tastes as them. While it's true that trying new things is sometimes good, often, dismissing people who don't want to try things you enjoy is merely a way of pretending that they "don't understand."

My sister avoids drink. Do I encourage her to try drinks now and then? Yes. She complains about the taste and not liking being "drunk," but I think with the right mild drink she can have something quite tasty, in careful moderation, and *avoid* getting drunk.

But do I PRESSURE her to do it, or say she "doesn't understand?" No. Not only is that extremely rude, but it ultimately DISCOURAGE some people from trying things because you actively are insulting their judgment.

Let me speak further on that point by replying to an earlier post of Dawnlight's....

Even so, I still don't believe in it. It's personal. I felt disgusted one time when my cousin told me that I was "brainwashed" because I don't drink. For me, there are other ways to have "fun" without alcohol.

That is, quite simply and plainly, an attempt on your cousin's part to use peer pressure to push you into doing something purely so that he (she?) could feel validated.

I get sick of this kind of peer pressure and self-validation. Everybody out there seems to feel this need to dub their favorite activities as the epitome of all things recreational, and "if they'd only try it, they'd love it too." But who is "they"? Some people are so broad in their definition of "they," that apparently the idea is that everyone in the world should share this enjoyment.

In case you don't get what I'm alluding to, I'm talking about sports fans. I have repeatedly run into people who will try to cajole me into "trying" various sports fan activities. I have "tried" countless different ones -- including Super Bowl parties, watching school football games, watching pro wrestling, and so on. I am NOT a sports fan, I never will be, and I think most people (or at least a HUGE chunk of them) who enjoy sporting events are more fans of the alcohol, junk food, loud parties, and social element. They just lump it all into the category of "sports" and convince themselves that it's the game they love most.

I'm a big geek. I go to anime conventions. I play video games. I have won at least two Soul Calibur 2 tournaments, and a couple of awards for my Link cosplay. But I don't repeatedly nag people to try anime or games (especially if they've already taken my best recommendations and didn't like them), and I DON'T hold the belief that everybody in the world would like it as much as me "if they'd only try it just once." The world's people are not all the same, and I'm fine with that.

That said, I enjoy a Mike's Hard Cranberry Lemonade or two, and a plate of parmesan garlic BBQ wings. But I'll pass on the football/pot/raves/whatever else you're trying to get me to try that I already know I won't enjoy. Peer pressure is never right if you're mostly doing it for your OWN interests and self-verification.

[Shane]

You're seriously worried about killing someone? Really? To me it sounds like you've bought into a lot of crazy propaganda and now have this expectation of an unreasonably high degree of risk associated with drinking alcohol. If you're in a safe environment, at home with your friends or something, you're not going to wake up covered in your best friend's blood with no recollection of the night before. The only "bad" things that will happen is you'll be a bit "laggy" and unbalanced - that's it. You'll probably be more f***ed up after spinning around ten times than you'll ever be after drinking. You're not going to turn into Mr. Hyde or something ridiculous.

Yes, I'm sure am worried about killing someone. Why should I drink something that could potentially kill someone and could (probably will) haunt you for the rest of your life just because you want to make a "proper judgement"? If you ask me alcohol is something you need to judge before you try it because I could see it possibly becoming a life problem. And as I said it depends if your in the wrong time, place and with the wrong people.

I would like to quote something from a friend of mine: "It's all fun and games, until someone gets hurt."

Edited by Shane, 18 October 2011 - 06:10 AM.

[NoeL]

Better safe then sorry.

You must lead an incredibly boring life if you never take any kind of risk if there's even the slightest chance of it going wrong.

As for those (mostly NoeL I think) saying "You can't knock it until you've tried it!"

That was never my argument

I've never slashed my wrists either, does that mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion over how much fun it is to do such a thing?

Yes and no. If you've never had any kind of cut then you obviously can't relate to what the experience might be like. If you have (which I assume you have) then you can imagine what slashing your wrists would feel like, because you have that knowledge. You can also take testimony from other people to make an estimate of how fun it's likely to be. In this case almost everyone will tell you it's not fun, though there may be a small number that enjoy the sensation - and you could also be one of them. As I said before, if you haven't tried something you can say you're not interested in it, but you can't say you don't like it.

I have watched others get drunk/high and I have imagined myself getting drunk/high and I don't like what I see one bit. "Trying" them to see what they're like seems only slightly more intelligent than jumping in front of a bus to confirm whether or not hell exists. My problem is you're saying I should ignore my judgment on this matter because "you can't know until you've tried!"

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying you cannot make the claim that you don't like X, or that X isn't fun until you actually do X. You can say "I don't think I'll like X" but you can't say "I don't like X".

NoeL, the problem with what you said is you interpret alcohol is all smiles and sunshine. While you can handle it, others may not. Addiction is one common problem when it comes to alcoholism. This is one reason why people do all these stupid things. Some cannot control their addiction and you're saying its alright for them continue to mess up their bodies because of it? While you can explain all the positive notes about alcohol and persuade me to drink, you cannot deny that alcohol is addictive just like any other drug. The amount of incidents that occur under the influence of alcohol speak for themselves.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm not advocating for or against substance use. People have asked why others enjoy it; I have given a response. People have claimed things they couldn't possibly know; I contested their grounds for making that assertion. People have expressed irrational fears; I provided a more realistic scenario.

Yes, some people get addicted. Yes, some people do stupid things. But these are the exceptions - not the rule. The people that get drunk and do stupid things are the people that would be doing stupid things even without the alcohol. The guys that get wasted and get into brawls are asshole f***wits that probably got beaten by their dad. They were messed in the head before they got on the piss. The people in this community (bar a couple) aren't those kinds of people.

Last year a new bar opened up in town - a bar for gamers, called Mana Bar. It has Xboxes, Wiis and PS3s set up, and it's a place for people very much like those at PZC to come and have a drink, play some games, and hang out. The bouncer there had previously worked at other bars in the area, and he was saying that if he had to throw less than five people out for being drunken rowdy dickheads it was a quiet night. I was talking to him about a month after Mana Bar opened, and he said he hadn't had to throw a single person out of Mana Bar since it opened. The patrons of Mana Bar - which are gamer nerds, just like the people here - aren't aggressive douchebags that cause trouble when mixed with booze. We're friendly types, and alcohol just makes us more friendly.

Now, I know most people here are way too young to drink anyway, and they should wait til they're at least 17 or so before experimenting (some people mature faster, some slower, but 17-18 is probably a fair benchmark), and again whether or not they want to try alcohol is their choice - I don't care either way. I'll I'm trying to do is dispel these ridiculous beliefs many of you seem to have. Alcohol (and drugs in general) aren't these evil scary things authorities make them out to be, but you do need to be mature and responsible if you're going to use them. If you think you're too immature to be sensible with them, then don't use them. Practically all the problems society has with substance abuse (outside of slums) are from idiots that use it without thinking, or have used it as a stress reliever and become dependent (so don't do that). If you're a sensible, responsible kid, you're not going to have any problems with alcohol.

Why should I drink something that could potentially kill someone and could (probably will) haunt you for the rest of your life just because you want to make a "proper judgement"?

Getting drunk ONCE, in the safety of your own home, with people you trust, ISN'T going to kill anyone. Sheesh! What rubbish have you kids been taught?

Edited by NoeL, 18 October 2011 - 07:04 AM.

[Giggidy]

Ah, my bad. Going back and checking, that was William who made that statement:

Drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, don't knock 'em till you try 'em! Honestly, they're not as bad as a lot of people make them out to be.

[Dawnlight]

Alcohol (and drugs in general) aren't these evil scary things authorities make them out to be, but you do need to be mature and responsible if you're going to use them. If you think you're too immature to be sensible with them, then don't use them. Practically all the problems society has with substance abuse (outside of slums) are from idiots that use it without thinking, or have used it as a stress reliever and become dependent (so don't do that). If you're a sensible, responsible kid, you're not going to have any problems with alcohol.

I think what the authorities are trying to express about alchoholism is know your limits and don't be immature with them. For example, don't drink and drive. Just so you know, I'm not promoting Prohibition here. Like you said, some people are just flat out idiots for the misuse of alcohol. It's like playing with fire. If you don't handle it properly, you will get burned. For me, I chug down regular beverages. I drink non-alcoholic beverages excessively. This is why I avoid alcohol because I'm afraid that I will be an addict and will abuse it. Just to clear it up for you. I agree with the statement that "don't let the alcohol control you, rather you control the alcohol."