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Should Intent or Interpretation Matter More - A Moral Kerfuffle

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Poll: Does Intent or Reception matter more?

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#1 coolgamer012345

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:31 AM

When talking to someone, sometimes the speaker and the listener have different ideas about what's acceptable. When this happens, things can be said that throw off discussions because of this difference. This can be seen today in the media, as it's becoming more commonplace.  To lay this to rest, I present to the community a question: When saying something, does the intent of the speaker or the reception of the listener matter more?


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#2 Shane

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:40 AM

In my opinion, the speaker's intent matters more than the interpretation and reception of the words. This is especially true when the speaker clarifies his or her intentions if there is confusion. Then it's now up to the listener to adopt this information otherwise the people who made wrong interpretations and guesses about the speaker's intent are simply wrong and will continue to be.

 

That's my take, as a basis. I'm sure there are some situations that require a little more nuance and other situations only having pure speculation. Such as if speaker is dead or refuses to comment on the matter.


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#3 Joelmacool

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:43 AM

On an extemely general basis, it can be said that the speaker's intent matters more, as it is the fault of the listener if they refuse to accept the clarification made by the speaker (if the listener interprets an opinion or fact incorrectly). This question cannot be answered so easily as context can change which factor is more important. Variables seen throughout many discussions change this too, as, for example, the listener may be placed in a situation where they act instinctively and without thinking, possibly allowing the listener to act irrationally and thus possibly ignoring the corrections made by the speaker in response to their own subjective interpretations. Thus, I shall only answer this in the general sense, and it is clear that the speaker's intent is more important than the interpretation made by the listener.

Edited by Joelmacool, 02 August 2019 - 08:51 AM.

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#4 Binx

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 11:51 AM

How it's received matters more. That *doesn't mean* that intent isn't important, but, say you see a woman with a big belly and you (for some stupid reason) ask her when the baby's due. Completely innocently and earnestly. Then she get's seriously mad because she's just fat. Any decent person would apologize because *regardless of intent* she was offended. That's the whole idea behind the concept of "putting one's foot in their mouth". You didn't *mean* to offend, but you still did, and it is on *you* to make amends. Getting defensive and saying it's on them to not be offended is an incredibly immature and self-centered attitude. Mature people work to not insult others and *apologize* when they hurt someone unintentionally. At *that point* it is no longer on the person who made the offensive comment, it is on the offended person to accept the apology and move on. Intent matters *because* it defines how the offended person should act upon receiving and apology, but if one makes an offensive comment, unintentionally, and refuses to apologize or tries to blame the offended person for being hurt, that's being childish and it's kinda a dick move.
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#5 Shane

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:03 PM

No one should blame anyone. In that situation it simply means the speaker made a honest misunderstanding and probably would feel embarrassed themself. While it's fine to apologize, it's no one's fault the receiver mistook the speaker's intent, as that still matters more and will truly decide if it was meant to be an insult or not.



#6 Binx

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:07 PM

Again: "I didn't mean to offend, so it's on you to not be offended" is *not* an excuse for not apologizing or explaining oneself. That attitude is *extremely* immature and childish. Period.
This shouldn't even be a debate. If you offend someone and don't apologize for doing so, you're being an ass. That's just basic common decency.

#7 Architect Abdiel

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:09 PM

I'm more on the side of the speaker's intent mattering more. Though to me, it really does depend on the context.

I also feel though that both sides should be understanding of the fact intent vs. interpretation doesn't always match up.
And I don't believe in escalating situations. Like hounding the speaker for being misunderstood or the speaker refusing to just acknowledge the misunderstanding with even a simple "My bad".


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#8 Binx

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:09 PM

*Especially* considering that the *entire* point of this thread is that TBT is trying to find people to cosign his trolling just because he *says* he wasn't meaning to offend (he absolutely was).

#9 Shane

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:10 PM

Did you not read my last post? I said it's fine to apologize. Talking down on people and shutting down an argument isn't going to persuade people, if anything, I dare say it's a bit offensive. :P


*Especially* considering that the *entire* point of this thread is that TBT is trying to find people to cosign his trolling just because he *says* he wasn't meaning to offend (he absolutely was).

What? He isn't trolling. Simple as that.



#10 Binx

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:13 PM

There *is* no argument to be had. It's called not being a dick. And, *again* this entire thread is just TBT trying to find people to cosign his *intentional* trolling and negativity just because he *says* he didn't mean it, even though he very much *did* do it to offend people. He is *lying* about his intent. Don't cosign his bullshit.

Edited by Binx, 02 August 2019 - 12:14 PM.


#11 Shane

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:15 PM

There *is* no argument to be had. It's called not being a dick. And, *again* this entire thread is just TBT trying to find people to cosign his *intentional* trolling and negativity just because he *says* he didn't mean it, even though he very much *did* do it to offend people. He is *lying* about his intent. Don't cosign his bullshit.

Considering a lot of people are voting the other option, I think there's ground for discussion. Although I feel you have some agenda to try and get this thread locked, so I'm going to ignore you now. :P

 

Also, it's not a simple one way street: If someone takes offence for an absurd reason, I don't think the speaker should apologize. And if the listener horribly interprets the speaker's words by assuming something really bad out of the speaker, they should apologize to the speaker.



#12 Binx

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:20 PM

Did you not read my last post? I said it's fine to apologize. Talking down on people and shutting down an argument isn't going to persuade people, if anything, I dare say it's a bit offensive. :P

What?
He isn't trolling. Simple as that.

Yes, he is. This is all about the fact that people jumped down his throat for encouraging people to abandon ZC on the PZC server. He was 100% meaning to offend, didn't apologize, and blamed the people who called him out for being offended by his intentionally offensive comment.
If a person *legitimately* did not mean to offend, they apologize and feel bad. TBT is just trying to deflect responsibility for being a dick because he doesn't want to admit he was wrong. That's why I say it was trolling.

#13 Shane

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:21 PM

Yes, he is. This is all about the fact that people jumped down his throat for encouraging people to abandon ZC on the PZC server. He was 100% meaning to offend, didn't apologize, and blamed the people who called him out for being offended by his intentionally offensive comment.

I wasn't going to respond any further, but I'm going to leave this comment here for others to get the full picture: He didn't encourage people. He said it was simply fine if people moved on, and he's right. People shouldn't be obliged to stay here if their interest in this hobby dries up. But this shouldn't be neither here nor there. Keep this dated drama out of this thread.



#14 Binx

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:31 PM

No, he said, and I quote, "It wouldn't be a bad thing if more people moved on to other programs." That is encouraging people to leave.

#15 Shane

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:34 PM

He said it wouldn't be a bad thing. Is it? Sure it sucks considering our current situation, but you shouldn't guilt trip someone if they want to move on. That's disrespecting their personal decision. There's no hint of encouragement whatsoever. He didn't say "it would be a good thing if people left" which is encouragement.

 

Now stop this. Calling people dicks and saying there's no real discussion to be had with this topic (despite poll results debunking that) is not doing you any favours. 


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