Jump to content

Photo

add multi layer support for maps


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Shadowblitz16

Shadowblitz16

    Illustrious

  • Members

Posted 01 November 2019 - 03:26 PM

right now it takes multiple maps to do combo layering.

I suggest maps having the native ability to store the 7 layers instead of having to use maps as layers.

 



#2 Geoffrey

Geoffrey

    Chosen One

  • Members

Posted 01 November 2019 - 04:03 PM

One better: integrate layers into combos, so that a single combo may place different tiles on different layers.

 

Two better: allow Link, enemies, items, etc. to be placed on different layers.



#3 Shadowblitz16

Shadowblitz16

    Illustrious

  • Members

Posted 01 November 2019 - 05:01 PM

If I had to choose I would rather have multiple layers of combos on a single map

but combos with multiple tiles sound cool too.

 

I think allowing link, enemies, items etc to be placed on multiple layers would be difficult to do.



#4 Lüt

Lüt

    Germanize

  • Members
  • Real Name:Steve
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 01 November 2019 - 06:01 PM

I don't really follow.

All layers already have to use the main map system since they use the same combo system as the main screen, so why not have them be accessible as actual maps instead of tucked away inside single maps? Sometimes it's nice to be able to edit the layer on its own, separate from the main screen.

And to the point of resource management, if every map automatically came with 6 additional layers for each screen, it would be a waste of file space if people only used a few layers, or even none at all, but had 6 layers worth of blank data saved with each screen. As it is now, you can use however maps you need for however many layers you need, possibly even other screens on the same map, and you can reuse the same layer on multiple screens.

Integrating layers into combos is interesting, but it's worth mentioning you can already do something similar using combo aliases, which support combo placement on all 7 layers simultaneously. I could see the benefit in not having to clear multiple layers if you decide to rearrange your screen though.

What I'd really be interested in regarding layers is one extra for each level - ground and overhead (ground) especially. But I think that's already been decided it won't make it into 2.55, so I digress.

#5 Emily

Emily

    Scripter / Dev

  • ZC Developers

Posted 01 November 2019 - 10:53 PM

right now it takes multiple maps to do combo layering.

I suggest maps having the native ability to store the 7 layers instead of having to use maps as layers.

...You realize that all we would do for that would be making invisible maps used for layering, right? And we would need to lower the max map count, because this would eat WAAAAY too much memory.

Request status: Not happening. Ever.

 

One better: integrate layers into combos, so that a single combo may place different tiles on different layers.

 

Two better: allow Link, enemies, items, etc. to be placed on different layers.

1: You mean combo aliases? Already exists; you can create an alias which places combos on multiple layers, and they can also place larger than 1x1 combos. Really useful stuff, if you think to check!

2: Layers in this sense are just a drawing order. To change the drawing order of those objects would require re-doing basically the entire engine... to support running things in any arbitrary order. Not possible.

 

If I had to choose I would rather have multiple layers of combos on a single map

but combos with multiple tiles sound cool too.

 

I think allowing link, enemies, items etc to be placed on multiple layers would be difficult to do.

See above, multiple layers single map no, combos multiple layers is combo aliases, link/enemies/items multiple layers is a no.

 

So, everything requested here is either "Not possible" or "Already exists". Have anything else?


  • Lüt likes this

#6 klop422

klop422

    Guess I'm full of monsters and treasure

  • Members
  • Real Name:Not George
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 02 November 2019 - 09:02 AM

All layers already have to use the main map system since they use the same combo system as the main screen, so why not have them be accessible as actual maps instead of tucked away inside single maps? Sometimes it's nice to be able to edit the layer on its own, separate from the main screen.

Case in point - if I make some overhead stuff in layer 3, then realise that I wanted an overhead shadow too. So, rather than just copy everything out into layer 4, I can jump into the maps and just copy the screens.

 

(I suppose an easier way to just swap layers/screens might be worth having, but I imagine that would be fairly low-priority.)


  • Lüt likes this

#7 Shadowblitz16

Shadowblitz16

    Illustrious

  • Members

Posted 02 November 2019 - 02:10 PM

the way I see it is basically every other map making tool with layers has multiple layers on a single map.

I don't see why zelda classic couldn't have that too.

 

coping and pasting would be the same except it would only copy visible layers.

if you don't want to copy and paste a layer then just disable it before you copy.

 

I would guess that this could be done by having a vector(not array) of invisible maps that are only created/destroyed when someone enables/disables them through

screen->layers.

 

I don't see why lowering the map count is necessary.

there are multiple ways to approach this. again combos could have the ability to store multiple tiles like Geoffrey said.

this way combos only use what is needed.



#8 Timelord

Timelord

    The Timelord

  • Banned
  • Location:Prydon Academy

Posted 02 November 2019 - 04:18 PM

This suggestion is not possible without breaking the present layers in quests. In theory, a single mapscr object could store layer data for N combo positions, but this would require a substantial rewrite of how maps work in general. You would also lose the handy feature that so many quest authors love, of using a single screen to generate layers for N other screens, hence the compatibility break.

 

Let's say that you use  mapscr 10, 0x00 as a layer template for dungeon walls. Now, on every dungeon screen, for layer 3, you simply feed in map 10, screen 0x00. Ta-da!

 

Now every one of your dungeon screens can have decorations on layer 3, all sourced from this screen. If layer data was only generated from the actual mapscr , then you would need to duplicate it, per dungeon screen in a quest.

 

While I do like the idea of layer data being linked to the actual mapscr on which it is used, and my own personal quests always have one mapscr per actual screen and layer (I use the autolayering feature), the majority of quests out there that use layers are not set up with a 1:1 relationship between the screen and the layer mapscr used to generate its visible layers.

 

Any such rewrite--we are talking 2.60/3.00+ here--would need to port the layer data from these older quests into a new format, and include an easy to use feature to push layers onto many screens at once.

 

This request is possible, but equally not viable at any point soon due to the work involved and our inherent issue with lack of physical resources/staff.

 

Regarding layer integration and combos: Combo Aliases already do that. The UI for them isn't very good, but once you set them up, when you draw with them as a brush, their combos are automatically drawn to the appropriate layers. Very few people make use of this feature, but we intend that all internally-developed modules with layer support will have automated layer brushes using aliases.



#9 Emily

Emily

    Scripter / Dev

  • ZC Developers

Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:31 AM

^ I don't think there is really a reason to rewrite anything about this, tbh. Not only would it be ass to do, but it changes something that many people do enjoy.

As for using a single screen as a layer for multiple others, weather. One screen of snow falling, used as a layer for dozens of screens. That'd be lost.

And yes, having recently begun using aliases, they are awesome.
  • ShadowTiger likes this

#10 Geoffrey

Geoffrey

    Chosen One

  • Members

Posted 03 November 2019 - 01:53 PM

I already use aliases, but, as Zoria has said, their UI is bongus dongus. I don't know how I'd improve it, however.

 

I knew full well that neither of my suggestions would ever make it in, but a man can dream. :)


  • ShadowTiger likes this

#11 Shadowblitz16

Shadowblitz16

    Illustrious

  • Members

Posted 03 November 2019 - 10:38 PM

@ZoriaRPG doesn't combo aliases have a limit to them?

or do they support just as many aliases as combos do?



#12 Lüt

Lüt

    Germanize

  • Members
  • Real Name:Steve
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 03 November 2019 - 10:42 PM

doesn't combo aliases have a limit to them?

2048 in 2.53, 8192 in 2.55.

#13 Timelord

Timelord

    The Timelord

  • Banned
  • Location:Prydon Academy

Posted 04 November 2019 - 02:37 PM

@ZoriaRPG doesn't combo aliases have a limit to them?

or do they support just as many aliases as combos do?

 

The limit is arbitrary. If people need more, we can add more, but at the current 2.55 cap, you would need to use a good portion of your combo table composing them, before you are out of slots.

 

The reason that the cap is lower than combos is primarily that thus far, no quest had run out until Lüt did in Z3.qst., and I increased the cap for him. I suppose I could give the a huge boost, but they eat RAM at all times, so I have been conservative.


  • ShadowTiger likes this


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users