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macOS 10.15 will not run ZC


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#1 Saffith

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 11:30 AM

Just a heads-up to any Mac users: macOS 10.15 Catalina, available today, will not run ZC. Support for 32-bit applications has been dropped, and ZC is still 32-bit. That may change someday, but it will take a lot of work. I don't expect any existing versions will be updated.

You may be able to run the Windows version through Wine, but I don't know yet if Wine is also affected by this change.
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#2 Hergiswi

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 05:46 PM

this doesn't affect me at all, but it does give me an excuse to complain about apple. i think this is dumb on their part. booooo


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#3 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 06:29 PM

Just a heads-up to any Mac users: macOS 10.15 Catalina, available today, will not run ZC. Support for 32-bit applications has been dropped, and ZC is still 32-bit. That may change someday, but it will take a lot of work. I don't expect any existing versions will be updated.

You may be able to run the Windows version through Wine, but I don't know yet if Wine is also affected by this change.


It is far worse than that. 10.15 won't run any unsigned apps. I was still planning to eventually move to 64b and again support OSX after v3.0, but this prickish move by Apple (to more solidly control what software they allow on their platform) very effectively stakes in the heart any notion of doing that.

Many small indy developers have jumped ship on OSX this week. The official announcement on future OSX support is forthcoming, long with two other news items that will be on zc.com by this week's end.

Does Wine on Linux support running ZC? I could swear that (last I tried) it did not.


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#4 Saffith

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 07:44 PM

Hm, maybe not anymore. 2.50.2 works, but I can't get 2.53 going. Looks like Allegro's failing to initialize. Something to do with the update to 4.4, perhaps.

It occurs to me, though, that 10.15 also drops support for OpenGL, and that might also be a problem. Allegro uses hardware acceleration on Windows, which I believe Wine just translates to OpenGL...

#5 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 03:01 AM

Hm, maybe not anymore. 2.50.2 works, but I can't get 2.53 going. Looks like Allegro's failing to initialize. Something to do with the update to 4.4, perhaps.

It occurs to me, though, that 10.15 also drops support for OpenGL, and that might also be a problem. Allegro uses hardware acceleration on Windows, which I believe Wine just translates to OpenGL...


Did Allegro report at what point it nodded out in Wine? It might be a setting, or it might be that the libs need to be registered in Wine. I'd be shocked if it is purely due o Allegro being updated, unless Wine just doesn't know what to do with the newer lib; but ag44 isn't that new.

Did you use the core build (R2) or the WIP R3 build for the test? Sorry, I still need to rebuild my Linux station from the ground up.

OSX also dropped support for Quartz and QT-lib, so, with OpenGL out, it's just dead, Jim.

#6 Saffith

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 09:02 AM

Did Allegro report at what point it nodded out in Wine?

Nope. Got "Initializing Allegro..." in allegro.log, and that's it. There is this in the terminal:

002e:fixme:kernelbase:AppPolicyGetThreadInitializationType FFFFFFFA, 0281FF00

Apparently that also happens for World of Warcraft, which works, so I don't think it's fatal. But it seems to be a Visual Studio thing, whereas 2.50 was built with MinGW. I wonder if that could be a factor.
 

Did you use the core build (R2) or the WIP R3 build for the test?

R2, I think? Downloaded it from zeldaclassic.com just beforehand, so whatever was up there.

#7 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:43 PM

Nope. Got "Initializing Allegro..." in allegro.log, and that's it. There is this in the terminal:
Apparently that also happens for World of Warcraft, which works, so I don't think it's fatal. But it seems to be a Visual Studio thing, whereas 2.50 was built with MinGW. I wonder if that could be a factor.
 
R2, I think? Downloaded it from zeldaclassic.com just beforehand, so whatever was up there.

 

Ah, I was wondering if MinGW versus MSVC would make a difference. I may need to set up mingw-32 again to see if it matters, but I dread building Allegro, every time, because of the deps; then seeing if ZC itself needs fixes to compile with MinGW.

 

It'd be good to get a version out that works with Wine, in general.

 

AFAIR, there is also MinGW for Linux, to build Win32 stuff from Linux. Might be worth a shot, too?

 

I've also been wondering if MinGW builds are fee of the false flag trojan warning that WD  detects.

 

I wish that we had more staff, so that at least one person was dedicated to cross-platform. As things stand, I'm 'it' for pretty much everything, so until I have the time and the wherewithal to set up a new Linux env (and figure out wtf gcc libs ZC wants), and to reconfigure MinGW, all of that is on hold.

 

Do you want a debug build of 2.53 to try that with Wine? I'm unsure if that would help at all.



#8 Saffith

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 11:35 PM

Do you want a debug build of 2.53 to try that with Wine? I'm unsure if that would help at all.

Probably not, but I'll give it a try.

#9 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 12:46 AM

Probably not, but I'll give it a try.

 

Here is the Debug Build of 2.53r3--10Oct2019--07:23GMT.

Please let me know if this reveals anything at all.

 

P.S. Other Linux building troubles aside, did you ever find  a solution to the issue with modern Linux no longer using ALSA (and this, ZC having no sound)?



#10 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 04:43 AM

The official announcement about OSX is now up on ZeldaClassic.com.



#11 Saffith

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 04:34 PM

Please let me know if this reveals anything at all.

Well, a little bit. Terminal:

002d:fixme:kernelbase:AppPolicyGetThreadInitializationType FFFFFFFA, 02B6FEE4
0031:fixme:wineconsole:WCUSER_NewBitmap leak


allegro.log:

Initializing Allegro... al-main INFO: Allegro initialised (instance 1)
Opening ZScript Console


The console opens and displays this:

Can't recognize 'mode CON: COLS=120' as an internal or external command, or batch script.
Can't recognize 'mode CON: ROWS=32765' as an internal or external command, or batch script.

A few seconds later, it resizes itself, and after another few seconds changes to:

ZScript Debug Console
Quest made in ZC Version 0, Build 0

Press any key to end...

 
The console doesn't show up in the release build even if it's enabled.

P.S. Other Linux building troubles aside, did you ever find  a solution to the issue with modern Linux no longer using ALSA (and this, ZC having no sound)?

I don't recall even hearing about that. ZC depends on libasound, so one way or another, I'd expect it either has sound or doesn't run at all. Haven't had any problems myself, other than the long-standing issue with sound playing too fast and distorting.

#12 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 03:16 AM

Well, a little bit. Terminal:

allegro.log:

The console opens and displays this:
A few seconds later, it resizes itself, and after another few seconds changes to:
 
The console doesn't show up in the release build even if it's enabled.

I don't recall even hearing about that. ZC depends on libasound, so one way or another, I'd expect it either has sound or doesn't run at all. Haven't had any problems myself, other than the long-standing issue with sound playing too fast and distorting.

 

Did that debug build do anything other than open the console?

 

Seems that Wine can't support the win32 console API properly, at a glance (CON: COLS=120', CON: ROWS=32765').

 

What happens (Debug and Release) if in zc.cfg you set:

[zeldadx]
debug_console=0
 
[CONSOLE]
ZScript_Debugger=0

Those are two. separate/different consoles. The latter, newer one runs in its own process from ZConsole.exe.

It may be that because ZC thinks the console is open, that it is printf-ing the init sequence into nowhere/invalid memory.

 

I'm not sure what this Wine console error actually indicates.

 

0031:fixme:wineconsole:WCUSER_NewBitmap leak

 

Is that Wine creating a video bitmap?

 

I have a long list of bug reports that amount to 'No sound on Linux', and from what I deduced, it is because modern distros deprecated ALSA, or ALSA stuff in the kernel.

 

Gray supposedly got sound working, but he never patched the src to properly compile, posted any makefiles, or any details on how he got sound working. My only other coder on Linux has no sound and altthough he was able to build ZC on his previous system, now that he updated gcc, he cannot. I'm not even sure what distro or version I want to net try, that'll be likely to work, and will run on my machine w/o a VM.




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