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What would you NOT like to see?


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#31 Kwolfgames

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:03 PM

Personally, I hate having to farm for health when I die. Because that means more frustration, more death, and more unnecessary time wasted. Plus, if it's a difficult dungeon, I not only have to farm health, but if I used any potions and then died, I have to go, farm for rupees, find a shop, lose more health, farm once more, head back to the dungeon, fight my way past all the enemies AGAIN, avoid getting hurt too much, because I don't want to waste my valuable potions because I was stupid. Oh, and if I die and happen to use another potion, I have to repeat the ENTIRE PROCESS.

Look, I understand the penalty, but when it reaches the point of utter frustration due to unnecessary amounts of time farming for something, again and again, the game is really flawed.

Now, I'm not saying give me full health, I'd be fine with say a70 percent of total health each time I start. True, the beginning would be hard, but it would be worth it later on, when it becomes less of a nuisance. One really shouldn't be forced to hunt for health. Rupees, yes, health, no.

I don't mind difficult push puzzles. At least, not when there are 7 blue wizzrobes after it and I still happen to have the blue ring. That just calls for more frustation.

My one thing that I don't like? Being in a massive overworld with no map. Spending hours to get a heart container only to realize you have no clue where you are is a real bummer.

Also, mysterious starting points. I, for one, wouldn't mind starting in a village you just passed when you died, or some general area to act as a marker of progress. But don't ya hate it when you get started off all the way back at the beginning? I mean, ya made it pretty far, say to midway part of the map, and when you die eventually, you get thrown all the way back, rather than at that village you just left. Again, annoying. ><

After so long, I am getting rather tired of seeing classic zelda bosses. At least, by themselves. Give me some custom bosses. Otherwise its kill dragon, get heart container, get triforce, rinse, repeat for next seven/eight/howevermanydungeonsthereare.



I'm gonna go out on a branch here, and sort've pick on Lost Isle and what I didn't like. Now, that was one epic quest, no doubt about that. HOWEVER. It was lacking something. Save for the final two bosses, All I fought was the classic loz boss enemies. Now, after BoaB, that was, well, really easy. They were something of a joke for me. The entire quest was fiendishly difficult (BUT enjoyable nonetheless), but save for the final two bosses (and the secret one), the end of the first couple of dungeons were...less than memorable. So yeah, if possible, more original custom bosses. (and no reusing that massive machine seen in Fenster's Quest, that thing has been done to death in several quests now) ^^ (although, it's not necessarily required. I just hate having to fight the same old boss I've seen in every quest for the fiftieth time.)

Sorry for my massively huge rant, but yeah, that's what I don't like. ^^;

Edited by Kwolfgames, 10 March 2010 - 02:04 PM.


#32 DarkFlameWolf

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 03:06 PM

QUOTE(Kwolfgames @ Mar 10 2010, 11:03 AM) View Post

Personally, I hate having to farm for health when I die. Because that means more frustration, more death, and more unnecessary time wasted. Plus, if it's a difficult dungeon, I not only have to farm health, but if I used any potions and then died, I have to go, farm for rupees, find a shop, lose more health, farm once more, head back to the dungeon, fight my way past all the enemies AGAIN, avoid getting hurt too much, because I don't want to waste my valuable potions because I was stupid. Oh, and if I die and happen to use another potion, I have to repeat the ENTIRE PROCESS.

Look, I understand the penalty, but when it reaches the point of utter frustration due to unnecessary amounts of time farming for something, again and again, the game is really flawed.

Now, I'm not saying give me full health, I'd be fine with say a70 percent of total health each time I start. True, the beginning would be hard, but it would be worth it later on, when it becomes less of a nuisance. One really shouldn't be forced to hunt for health. Rupees, yes, health, no.

No farming, got it. I'll try to see if I can limit that.

I don't mind difficult push puzzles. At least, not when there are 7 blue wizzrobes after it and I still happen to have the blue ring. That just calls for more frustation.

We'll see, I don't plan on doing any mind bending puzzles like the ones featured in the later levels of Lost Isle/Origin. But I do plan on having some tricky ones.

My one thing that I don't like? Being in a massive overworld with no map. Spending hours to get a heart container only to realize you have no clue where you are is a real bummer.

There was a ZC limited reason for not having a map in Origin, so that couldn't be helped. As for Lost Isle, you have your map, so not sure what your deal there is.

Also, mysterious starting points. I, for one, wouldn't mind starting in a village you just passed when you died, or some general area to act as a marker of progress. But don't ya hate it when you get started off all the way back at the beginning? I mean, ya made it pretty far, say to midway part of the map, and when you die eventually, you get thrown all the way back, rather than at that village you just left. Again, annoying. ><

I promise I won't be as punishing like that. I can't guarantee you'll start off at 'markers' throughout the overworld, but maybe at the last dungeon you stopped at.

After so long, I am getting rather tired of seeing classic zelda bosses. At least, by themselves. Give me some custom bosses. Otherwise its kill dragon, get heart container, get triforce, rinse, repeat for next seven/eight/howevermanydungeonsthereare.

Sorry, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I mentioned already when I said I was making a new quest that I'm going back to my roots. Doing what I do best. And that's classic style Zelda quests. Which means no custom bosses. You're stuck with what ZC has. If you don't like it, then I'm sorry, my quests aren't for you. I'm here to make classic ZC quests, not bend the wheel and make something ZC was never intended to ever be. So classic ZC is what its going to be. Its what I do best.

I'm gonna go out on a branch here, and sort've pick on Lost Isle and what I didn't like. Now, that was one epic quest, no doubt about that. HOWEVER. It was lacking something. Save for the final two bosses, All I fought was the classic loz boss enemies. Now, after BoaB, that was, well, really easy. They were something of a joke for me. The entire quest was fiendishly difficult (BUT enjoyable nonetheless), but save for the final two bosses (and the secret one), the end of the first couple of dungeons were...less than memorable. So yeah, if possible, more original custom bosses. (and no reusing that massive machine seen in Fenster's Quest, that thing has been done to death in several quests now) ^^ (although, it's not necessarily required. I just hate having to fight the same old boss I've seen in every quest for the fiftieth time.)

Sorry for my massively huge rant, but yeah, that's what I don't like. ^^;



#33 /M/

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 04:15 PM

QUOTE
Sorry, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I mentioned already when I said I was making a new quest that I'm going back to my roots. Doing what I do best. And that's classic style Zelda quests. Which means no custom bosses. You're stuck with what ZC has. If you don't like it, then I'm sorry, my quests aren't for you. I'm here to make classic ZC quests, not bend the wheel and make something ZC was never intended to ever be. So classic ZC is what its going to be. Its what I do best.


The intentions and capabilities of ZC have changed dramatically after the commencement of the newer betas. ZC is no longer limited to making simple, classic quests that we've all played so much to the point of becoming very monochromatic. Instead, you can now use it to even recreate LttP with the exception of the sidescrolling. So, your using the former excuses that were valid before 2.11 as for why your quest will be an average classic-styled game. But why settle for satisfactory, typical, and basic when you can now achieve for higher standards? You are putting time and effort to your quest either way, you might as well make it worthy of your time. Now, don't take my statement out of context, I'm not suggesting that you go all out on your next project by adding a bunch of scripts and features. But at least add some customization to it. Something that will motivate the players to continue playing your quest until the end and keep them interested at the same time instead of the usual "been there done that". Picture this, your a hardcore Pac-Man fan, and recently just finished the game. Two new Pac-Man games were released. One which is just a re-arrangement of the original, same tileset as well. And the other one features new graphics, a bunch of new items that have different effects such as slow time, teleports you around the level, etc. Which would you rather pick? Obviously, you would rather have the 2nd choice since the first one would feel like the original game and would get old real quick. The same principle applies to ZC. You can only play a few classic-styled quests that without experiencing Déjà vu. Especially when they feature the same tileset with the same palettes.. You also say its what you do best, yet how would you know this if you haven't experimented with anything else? LI didn't really have much of a plot, just a background story that was linked too the final boss. Yet even that, was better than having no plot at all.



#34 DarkFlameWolf

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 07:44 PM

probably because I don't have time to learn all the new features while building the quest. My life is busy enough as it is. I'm only doing this in my free time.

#35 /M/

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 08:57 PM

QUOTE
I'm only doing this in my free time.


Trust me, so am I. I've sacrificed alot of plans in order to set the game to a realistic goal for myself. There is alot for me to learn as well, I haven't been keeping up with the latest additions to ZC, but it doesn't hurt to ask. It would take only minutes to learn how to do something in ZQuest since it isn't that complex. Now if your talking about scripting, that's a whole different case. I will probably never learn how to do that. icon_razz.gif What I'm doing right now is building the maps first, and then doing all the fancy stuff afterwards. So you don't exactly need to know how to do something at the very moment of construction. Its been working for me and I think you can get things done alot faster like this.

#36 DarkFlameWolf

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 08:59 PM

we'll see how it goes...at the very least, I know how to work the enemy editor and subscreen editor and how to use timed warping to create some custom scenes, etc. So there will at least be some of that.

Edited by DarkFlameWolf, 10 March 2010 - 08:59 PM.


#37 /M/

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:04 PM

Thats good to hear. If you ever need any assistance with making a palette, making a plot for your quest, PM me. I'll be more than willing to help as long as another interesting ZC project is added to our database. icon_wink.gif

#38 DarkFlameWolf

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:07 PM

Interesting is a matter of perspective. Honestly, I really don't believe any new quests coming down the pipeline from me will garner much praise or reception like they once did before all this new gimmick fangled ZCs came along.

#39 /M/

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:16 PM

It honestly all depends. You just have to remember that classic styled games have become very generic. These new scripts add a new flavor to peoples quests. But most people release their scripts, so it isn't like you can't use them.

#40 Nathaniel

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:26 PM

I agree that all these new features in ZC has made people finicky. So why am I not? Sure it is all nice, but I remember what attracted me to ZC in the first place: The Legend of Zelda, not the Zelda series as a whole. Ideally, features are a nice addition for variety and more degrees of freedom for creativity, but at the same time we should not forget what the program is a tribute to. Bring some new to the old, rather than bring the new and forget the old.

#41 Kwolfgames

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 02:43 AM

Alright first off, I wanna say this.

My first custom quest was Wolfstyle DX. Of which both surprised me and introduced me to what Zelda Classic was capable of doing. So yeah, I DO happen to enjoy your games. Though for life of me I cannot figure out how to get past the first level in Ganon's Claim.

Gah.

*headdesk*

ANYWAY.

That whole rant was really about what I disliked about ZC quests in general. Kinda got a tad off track about that and forgot what this was for. Didn't really mean to upset you, just saying stuff aloud. Aplogies for upsetting you, it wasn't my intention.

If you wish to make something more classical, feel free to do so. I eagerly await it.

Sorry if I sounded a tad pushy, I guess when I start going off on things like that I wind up sounding like I'm forcing someone to do something. When I talk about something I dislike, I pretty much say everything plus the kitchen sink, so to speak.

Plus, I always really liked your style of quests. Difficult, yet rewarding. On occasion frustrating, but ultimately fulfilling.

So, yeah, sorry for offending ya, if I did.

Edited by Kwolfgames, 11 March 2010 - 02:52 AM.


#42 ShadowTiger

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 07:27 AM

My stance on the "New Features in ZC" is that they've made ZC somewhat easier to use, (But have also broken our habitations, like changing around the right-click menu when right-clicking on a combo. We're not used to the new layout yet.) and have streamlined our ability to do things. Some of the new features can be more useful than confusing, and one-time ordeals to bypass which bestow a permanent benefit to the quest, and I guess others can be more of a hassle to use, like Dungeon Carving mode which, as we discussed in a long distant thread in ZC Discussion, can kinda muddle things up in the long term. (Due to difficulty in placing individual combos manually from the group.) ... (Though were such a case, what I do is I put TWO layouts of the combos on the combo page; one in Dungeon Carving / Relational Mode (Based on the same pattern believe it or not, so it's okay to do.) AND our own preferred pattern next to each other on the combo page, but base them on the same combos, so if we have to make a change, it updates both sets of our combos in real time.)

#43 SpacemanDan

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 08:58 AM

QUOTE(Nathaniel @ Mar 10 2010, 09:26 PM) View Post

I agree that all these new features in ZC has made people finicky. So why am I not? Sure it is all nice, but I remember what attracted me to ZC in the first place: The Legend of Zelda, not the Zelda series as a whole. Ideally, features are a nice addition for variety and more degrees of freedom for creativity, but at the same time we should not forget what the program is a tribute to. Bring some new to the old, rather than bring the new and forget the old.


These are my thoughts exactly. I don't mind the new, but at the heart of it all, I still appreciate the old, and I think it shouldn't be forgotten among all the new stuff.

#44 Sheik

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 12:24 PM

I whole-heartly agree with /M/. And to add this: it's a shame that you don't gonna use the "new" ZC to the fulliest, DFW, because I have a feeling that a game of yours with the new features ZC is capable of would be sheer awesomeness.
That's because I really enjoy your designing style, especially on the overworlds. Seriously, if you made a custom-tileset with a style we haven't seen a zillion times before (not that this is a bad thing - I myself am using an old tileset, but for me it's my first project to actually finish) and got some fancy custom bosses, scripts, new items and all that fancy stuff, you'd easily beat LI or at least create something as good. I can't script a line of text for the life of me either, I just happend to find someone who knows ZC in and out. I am capable of all that 2.10 stuff, I think, but I don't set the stuff up, because it's no fun for me. I just design (well, plus a lot of the creative work), because that's what I think I am good at.
So well, if there's something I would like to see, than it's a quest designed by you that uses 2.5.'s features muchly. Well, of course all that other stuff about LI beeing too hard and all that whining I posted here earlier, too, but also more than just 2.10. If it's not happening, than it's not happening. If it happens, it'll be awesome.

#45 /M/

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 04:59 PM

Well I think most new features should be used. In my quest, I probably won't imply any custom items besides the ones newly added to ZC such as the Roc Cape. I will try to have the custom bosses scripted, a custom subscreen, Joe123's NPC/Sign script, etc.

QUOTE
. So why am I not? Sure it is all nice, but I remember what attracted me to ZC in the first place: The Legend of Zelda, not the Zelda series as a whole. Ideally, features are a nice addition for variety and more degrees of freedom for creativity, but at the same time we should not forget what the program is a tribute to. Bring some new to the old, rather than bring the new and forget the old.


Were all entitled to our own opinions. As for me, sure ZC was made as a tribute to 'The Legend of Zelda', but there already is over 100 quests that are all classic-styled. What will make your quest any different from them? What will individualize your quest from any of the others and catch my attention to give it a try? Its either the quest features nice graphics, a well developed plot or new features. It can't be gameplay since were using the same engine and it comes down to how well you place your enemies and if you can manage to make your game non-frustrating. Design could be another deciding factor, yet in terms of dungeons, its really hard to make them fun without creating an atmosphere to it. (FUN Dungeons) Sabotaged Dragoon really grabbed my attention at the time for its uniqueness in terms of graphics, a great plot that had me wondering the ending and still does since the game wasn't finished. It also created a great atmosphere that somehow made the gameplay funnier even though I've already experienced fighting the casual octorok in previous quests. As for Choice of Destiny, the plot was my source of motivation to beating the temple in the demo. I really wanted to know how Teilyr would combine everything together at the end of it. And he did a great job at that. I rather bring the new and forget the old, than to have the new and still stick with the old. Why would drive an older car when you can drive a newer one whenever you want? Hope that made sense.. I'll stop now before I make it too confusing.

Edited by /M/, 11 March 2010 - 05:27 PM.



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