62 replies to this topic

[Mitsukara]

2.  Scripting is 100% necessary to make modern type A Zelda quests.  There's no way around this one -

Is that a challenge?

Edited by Mitsukara, 22 August 2021 - 10:46 PM.

[Bagu]

James24, Zoria was my favourite teacher
...and when I read something like this, I don't think that you understood, what he was working for.
 

 

1. There are a new generation of Zelda players.  The modern type A Zelda player wants their quest to resemble Link's Awakening, The Minish Cap, The Oracle of Seasons and the Oracle of Time.  They don't want their quest looking like NES Zelda - that was for the oldies.

 

 

Yes, there DEFINITLY IS a new generation of Zelda Fans!!!
...kids like my girlfriend's son.

He's eight years old, now. He's a totally typical modern gamer.
...Fortnite, Minecraft and this disappointing freemium stuff.

But he was freaking out, when he had beaten the classic1st.qst.
...he's also trying around, and finished some own Mini-Mini quests.
...he's working a serious project, I try to realize his scripting ideas as good as I can

Edited by Bagu, 22 August 2021 - 11:04 PM.

[Magi_Hero]

this thread sucks

[Bagu]

this thread sucks

 Excuuuuse me, Princess!!!

[Emily]

this thread sucks

I could have told you that by reading the line "Started by James24" before opening the thread. Hell, before I even saw that, I could tell just from the thread title.

[Mitchfork]

this thread sucks

sorry, I did give permission to Russ to ban me

[Haylee]

Link's Awakening will be 30 years old in 2 years.

Lol

[Bagu]

If there is one thing, that I would wish to change...

...the TLoZ1 Intro...

There are many developers who make quests, which have nothing to do with the Zelda universe.
(I guess my only LoZ quest/project will be "A Fairytale Princess")

And almost everyone creates his own custom intro and title screen.
.

...so wouldn't it be possible to offer a version of the player, that skips the LoZ Title (NOT THE AGN AND NINTENDO COPYRIGHTS).

Maybe a a package that includes a bunch of popular (non-LoZ) custom quests in the modules folder.
And a player, that uses the Armageddon Opening Screen (Displaying the Copyrights)

...and then opens the Name Register Screen.
But if you chose a space and enter you name, it would automaticly open the Browse Window, and the "modules" folder.

Then you can chose the quest, you want.
If you select the classic first quest and start the game, it's gonna' open the LoZ 1 title Screen and play the intro (skipable by pressing "Start" or "A", as regular) before opening the OW DMap.

I guess this LoZ1 title Screen and the Press "A" to browse quest files navigation, is pretty confusing for some newbie users.
...esspacially when they don't speak english...

Just an idea.

I hope, I found the right words.


 

Edited by Bagu, 22 August 2021 - 11:38 PM.

[Bagu]

I know, this means to rewrite the entire player configuration...
...but yes ....I have funny ideas, like this sometimes

[Emily]

If there is one thing, that I would wish to change...

...the TLoZ1 Intro...

There are many developers who make quests, which have nothing to do with the Zelda universe.
(I guess my only LoZ quest/project will be "A Fairytale Princess")

And almost everyone creates his own custom intro and title screen.
.

...so wouldn't it be possible to offer a version of the player, that skips the LoZ Title (NOT THE AGN AND NINTENDO COPYRIGHTS).

Maybe a a package that includes a bunch of popular (non-LoZ) custom quests in the modules folder.
And a player, that uses the Armageddon Opening Screen (Displaying the Copyrights)

...and then opens the Name Register Screen.
But if you chose a space and enter you name, it would automaticly open the Browse Window, and the "modules" folder.

Then you can chose the quest, you want.
If you select the classic first quest and start the game, it's gonna' open the LoZ 1 title Screen and play the intro (skipable by pressing "Start" or "A", as regular) before opening the OW DMap.

I guess this LoZ1 title Screen and the Press "A" to browse quest files navigation, is pretty confusing for some newbie users.
...esspacially when they don't speak english...

Just an idea.

I hope, I found the right words.


 

By checking "Modules->Ignore", it automatically browses when you register a name.

Yes the name of that option is confusing. Zoria literally REFUSED to allow it to be named anything saner.

[Bagu]

Thanks for this info!!!
...that's good, I didn't check that out, before.

Works fine!
Things can be so easy sometimes!!!

...now, we just need to "skip" the LoZ 1 title screen (and only use it if you open a classic.qst file)
...just kidding.

But I'd really suggest to check the modules->ignore function, in the preconfiguration of the player.

Thanks for your help.

Edited by Bagu, 23 August 2021 - 01:12 AM.

[Jenny]

James, you're getting a bit predictable I fear. Maybe it's time to take a backseat for a while and come up with new material for us to enjoy.

[Deedee]

There's been a lot talk lately about what to do now that Zoria is gone.  Migration, the "council" of elders, new developers and such.  But I would like everyone to consider that none of these will solve Zelda Classic's current existential problem.  And if this problem isn't solved, then all the work will be for nothing.  The dog's brain is likely to bark its head off at this one but I have to try:

 

1. There are a new generation of Zelda players.  The modern type A Zelda player wants their quest to resemble Link's Awakening, The Minish Cap, The Oracle of Seasons and the Oracle of Time.  They don't want their quest looking like NES Zelda - that was for the oldies.

 

2.  Scripting is 100% necessary to make modern type A Zelda quests.  There's no way around this one - if you want any new features you must script them.

 

3.  Most people can't script.  Most people are script illiterate and won't spend 6 months or so learning how to script.  If people find out that scripting is necessary to make their dream modern type A Zelda quest then they'll just quit or keep trying and keep cancelling like certain type A players here.

 

4.  To remedy point (3), requires modular scripting.  This involves pairing a complicated script with its own automated setup instructions so that a script illiterate user can simply run the modular script and have it do everything for them.

 

5.  Modular scripting is too expensive.  The cost of this is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Not only must you pay for the developer but you must also pay people who write modular scripts.  Who is going to pay for it?  Certainly not any type B player.

 

 

Zoria might have been many things.  But at least he was smart enough to understand this.  Why bother developing ZC anymore if you know that its inevitable end is coming very soon?  Why keep good relations with everyone?  Even if he did the most stellar job he could - he could never overcome this problem.  So why even try?

 

Perhaps its time for all of us to consider that we should simply do nothing and let Zelda Classic die.  Trying to get it to survive is simply too expensive and too costly and no one's going to pay for it.

See, I already found the answer to these questions, in the form of TabletPillow's quests. TabletPillow uses only very modular scripts and mainly relies on engine features, such as string control codes, creative item usage, etc. A lot of what TabletPillow used in his own quests (not all, but most), like NPCs, has been added to ZC as built in features. We've already hit a scripting peak; you can do insane stuff with scripts even in 2.53. The skill ceiling cannot be raised any more just by giving scripts features. What can be changed, however, is the skill floor; making it easier for users to reach that skill ceiling with minimal scripting knowledge, and making the minimal scripts that they do need either built in or as simple to use as possible.

Zoria was more concerned with trivial stuff that very few users cared about, and the few features he added that were actually excellent (generic combos, weapon/npc scripts, and the like) were poorly advertised cause of poor PR. I don't blame you for thinking ZC has been dead despite being under active development. However, in the past month, there has been more excitement about 2.55 than there ever was because new features are getting advertised to the right people, and new features are being added that people care about.

Going back to Tablet's quests, I realized the biggest thing to make people excited for the new version is to give them more tools that can be twisted creatively to create things even we couldn't even imagine. For example, he managed to make a debuff that drained your health until you went to a bishop and got it removed in order to have a creative level mechanic that you had to avoid; or using string control codes to switch characters that each have different equipment. People don't care about fancy scripted stuff; people care about seeing new ideas, and in the 13 years since 2.50 came out in beta, we're starting to stagnate with the base engine features and leading people to want custom scripted stuff; yet somehow Tablet still managed to do creative stuff with only old database scripts and base engine features.

I think the most toxic thing we as developers can do is deny basic features because "well you can just script that easily"; by virtue of being scripts, your average user who is averse to scripts will avoid using those, thus we see less creative stuff. What we can do is add creative new features that people can use to do cool and new stuff with their imagination.

[The Satellite]

this thread sucks

"The Legend of Zelda Cartoon Series" and "Who here is rich? Share your story" were great classic James24 threads, but with "ZC's existential problem," the thread creator was obviously not thinking straight.

[Alucard648]

What about scripting contest and best scripts will become bundled with ZC newest build?