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It's finally time...for a Demo!


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#1 Twilight-Prince

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 05:09 PM

You heard right, folks, the long-awaited Solace Artema demo is here and ready for you all to play!

What can you expect in this dungeon? Well, let me give a bit of background to it first~

This dungeon is known as the Arbiter's Hold, a long-abandoned place where the player character's (Sona's) ancestors trained diligently for the return of a supposed horde of demons. It is also a place where they researched a style of golemancy to help bolster their defenses and reduce human casualties. Unfortunately, the demons never returned and the place has been long-abandoned for hundreds of years, though still remains stalwart in structure...mostly.

This dungeon is of moderate size and you will find the following in there:
- Unusual enemies, some made with the enemy editor...others not~
- Interactive spots. Keep your eyes open if the A button shows up above your character...you might learn something! Poke and prod around for these!
- The standard Map and Compass to help direct you around. The full-screen map will also work for any rooms you've been in.
- A Piece of Heart is amongst the prizes in these varied rooms, as is the main dungeon item.
- A single block puzzle that isn't too difficult and has multiple ways to solve it.
- A dungeon boss that isn't an Aquamentus.
- Enhanced music to help set the scene and atmosphere, which is provided with this demo pack. As always, make sure to put the music in the same place you put the .qst file! Some of the music is a bit heavy on the MB, and I do apologize since they were downloaded a long time ago. I'm working on a workaround or better way to do this!

Download the demo here: https://www.dropbox....e Demo.zip?dl=0

Have fun, everyone, and of course, if you have any bugs to report or comments/constructive criticism, feel free to leave them here or contact me via PM~
-Twilight-Prince


Edited by Twilight-Prince, 18 January 2019 - 04:10 AM.

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#2 Avaro

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:58 PM

Not bad! Liked the presentation. The dungeon was really simple in structure though, but makes sense if it's an early game dungeon.

 

I didn't like how the triggers didn't indicate what they triggered, because the door is the other end of the dungeon (excluding the very first trigger puzzle, that one is fine).

The push blocks are inconsistent. The 4-way one doesn't have a "wait" type, while the others do. This makes pushing the other pushblocks very slow, while the 4-way one rather sensitive.

The boss deals a lot of damage for an early game boss (if it is one).

It'd be fair to allow pressing B to make the text display instant. In the past I myself was worried about allowing this too, but it's basically just convenience for the player.

(Pressing down on the titlescreen feels so 2.10 like. You could get a press start script eventually. Also very fast screen scrolling would be nice.)  :P

 

Goodluck on your project. It seems promising!


Edited by Avataro, 16 January 2019 - 07:58 PM.

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#3 Shane

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 06:07 AM

Pretty neat demo, I liked how it felt like it could have been an actual place people lived in, you nailed it. I agree with all of the things Avataro listed. Although I didn't mind the boss actually, I even tanked it and got it on my first try. Overall enjoyable along with the dungeon itself. 

 

My only real complaints are some of the doors are odd. Check their walkability to see what I mean, you can get caught in them and sometimes you can see the player kind of poke out with the side ones. Also you can push blocks onto half solid tiles. It made me screw up the puzzle the first time around, might want to replace the half solid barriers with something else?


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#4 Twilight-Prince

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 02:29 PM

...I honestly never would have thought you could push blocks onto half-solid tiles. I'll definitely have to look into that, Shane. Also, I'll chek the doors too.

 

All of what's been said so far is very constructive, thanks~



#5 Lüt

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 03:57 PM

I'm liking it.

It plays pretty well, the challenge is balanced enough for a first level that it allows a sense of mystery and exploration without being either too boring or too action-packed, and I always did enjoy old adventure games like Shadowgate, so the captioning of various objects and items throughout the level was a really nice touch that I hope you keep up throughout the rest of the quest. The design works, and while a little on the simple side, it conveys the feeling of a proper place moreso than a lot of the more complex layouts I've seen.

Some specifics:

* Walls reaching past screen edges - I know ZC rooms can get obnoxiously cramped sometimes, but I typically try to keep them so that 2-tile-high walls are fully on each screen. Reason being, even if it may look OK on a screen-per-screen basis, map view reveals cutoffs like these:

sa-demo1-01.png

* Alt candle colors - are these greenish candles only to grab the player's attention for the caption, or is there something more to them? If not, I'd probably just leave them orange, since alt colors are usually meant for secrets or special functions.

sa-demo1-02.png

Also, the pillar bases below the main candle animations in the combo list are meant to be placed on Layer 1, so that the pillars rest on top of the floor instead of being cut off by it. They shouldn't impede walkability by default.

* Diagonal walkability - since ZC doesn't natively support diagonal structures, this one's always a bit of a mixed bag. You can be conservative with your walkability and have the player not be able to step on parts of the floor, or be more liberal and have them be able to step on parts of the wall. Having done diagonals for a few years now, I find being liberal is better, because even if the occasional foot on the wall may look strange, not being able to walk on the perfectly flat floor in front of it can look equally strange, and more to the point, the increased mobility of the player ultimately allows more freedom of movement and prevents getting "stuck" in corners like this that anybody can clearly tell the character should be able to fit through:

sa-demo1-03.png

* Flag 67 - best to put this No Push Block flag anywhere you don't want blocks to be pushed, particularly puzzle area barriers (I think this is what Shane was talking about):

sa-demo1-04.png

* Doorways are sacred - plz:

sa-demo1-05.png

* Expand overhead combos - when you do freeform doors, you'll need a collection of overhead combos with different walkability to manage situations like these:

sa-demo1-06.png

sa-demo1-07.png

In the first shot, more overhead is needed on the sides of the passage so that the player's usage of melee weapons isn't revealed from within the passageway (there's only so much you can do about projectile weapons, so don't worry about those).

In the second shot, I'm holding my sword upward from within the left side of the door to show that this is as far forward as I can walk. You'll need to add extra overhead combos with different walkability patterns to ensure the player doesn't get stuck on corners in a passage that's larger than the doors on either side of it.

(Or you could use barrier combos on layer 0 and place the current overhead combos on an actual overhead layer. Either way works, but extra overhead combos are more efficient and you lose less screen space if you're planning a large quest.)

As for boss difficulty, this is how I did second try:

sa-demo1-08.png

Closest fight I've had in a long time.

I should also note, the boss music didn't initialize the second time I attempted the fight (I died right at the end of my first try).

Lastly, the compass points to the boss room, but doesn't stop blinking after the boss's defeat. If you want it to stop blinking after it dies, put this script on an FFC in the room (credit Saffith):
 
ffc script StopCompassAfterEnemies
{
    void run()
    {
        while(Screen->NumNPCs()==0)
            Waitframe();
        while(Screen->NumNPCs()>NumNPCsOf(NPC_ITEMFAIRY))
            Waitframe();
        Game->LItems[Game->GetCurLevel()]|=LI_TRIFORCE;
    }
}

What that technically does is give the player the Triforce after killing the boss, so obviously it's meant for a non-Triforce dungeon with a level number of 10 or greater. If you're planning on eventually having a Triforce item in this dungeon, then I guess ignore this.

Anyway, interesting demo, hope to see this develop further.
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#6 Twilight-Prince

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 04:31 PM

Very insightful there, Lut, thank you! It definitely helps seeing screens to know where is what, and I'm glad you liked the interaction spots! I'm certainly trying to go for a more deeper lore-based story i this game, so places where you can read books and stuff will be commonplace throughout!

 

First off, thank you for pointing out the inconsistency in the starting room with the walls. I always try to prioritize consistency, so that was a big oops on my end.

 

The off-color candle is...actually not intentional. For some reason the FFC that is used for the text prompt to examine it kinda likes to go over anything that isn't on Layer 0 (the candlelight itself is on Layer 1), and I had multiple problems with that and the books lying around too (as well as some walkability issues that I did my best to circumnavigate around). In the end, the off-color candle could be seen as a way to draw attention to it for the prompt, but not intentional on my part.

 

Looking again at that room with the diagonal movement issue...yeah, should fix that.

 

Shane indeed did mention that, so Flag 67 it is! As for the doorways, I'm gonna plop some "No Enemies" flags in those.

 

I didn't think to expand on the overhead combos there, but I definitely will fix that. As you said, not much can be done for projectiles, but oh well~

 

Nice work on the boss~ Some were saying he does too much damage, but considering he does only 1/2 heart on contact and 1 with his projectiles, I felt 6 hearts was a good base to put that around, so unsure if I'll change that or not. Also, I think I might know why the boss music didn't initialize the second time...it's because I mixed the music change in along with the boss's intro string. I might know a way to fix that, but I equally don't want the music to play when he's not there.

 

I did see this script (or a similar one) to removing the compass blink once the boss is done. I actually DO have a Triforce-like item planned for the final game, but unsure how to implement it (or make them appear on the subscreen for that matter).

 

Thanks for your input, Lut, and if you can help out in any regard for script issues, it's more than welcome!



#7 Twilight-Prince

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 04:11 AM

Taking most of what people said into consideration, I have updated the demo accordingly in the main post~ The music's the same, so no need to change any of that!




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