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Somewhere in Between


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#16 Russ

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:03 AM

Whoops... I feel stupid now. Although on the second one, you got stuck in the tree? I intentionally put an un-walkable combo directly above there, so you shouldn't be able to. Granted, I realized I didn't put it north of the cliff tile there (icon_doh.gif), but that's fixed now. The download link had been updated, and you're added to the credits. Thanks for pointing those out!

Now the quest is in Pure's official database though. And that one ain't as easy to edit. But the bug fixes and addendum to the credits should be present in the next site update.

#17 The Satellite

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:18 AM

Eh, it was only just processed, I went ahead and grabbed the file and updated it in the database, so that's no big issue. We tend to do updates of just-released quests pretty quickly, or at least I do, so it was no problem. icon_wink.gif

*will have to get back to this quest and 100% it ASAP*

#18 NoeL

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:44 AM

Well, been playing this quest for a little while. For the most part it's enjoyable, and it's nice seeing so many of my custom tiles in one place, but I can't say I'm a fan of Russ' level design (the same problem popped up in LotH). Way too much extraneous detail, too much tree/bush/flower variety, and so many freaking dead ends! If I walk onto a screen and find myself immediately surrounded by unwalkable tiles, what was even the point of allowing me to walk there? To see the scenery from the other side of the screen? I'd show screenshots to illustrate my point, but practically every second screen has this problem.

Or how about that part in Silent Hills where there's a tiny area to walk in, but it's spread across four separate screens? (the middle section here)
IPB Image
There is no excuse for making those bottom two screen accessible inside that tiny little valley. There is nothing there!. There's nothing important above the valley either, so why not move it up three or four tiles and just use the two screens? Hell, since it only exists to waste time anyway, why not just put the cave on the top left screen and get rid of the unnecessary vines and stuff entirely?

The temple interiors were just ridiculous. No thought into creating anything functional, just stuck in as many corners as possible into one screen thinking complexity = aesthetic appeal. It does not. Just because you can create absurdly random shaped rooms doesn't mean you should. And many of the rooms had darknuts. Darknuts + cramped spaces =/= fun.

Russ' design fails to factor in the screen-based nature of ZC and instead focuses on creating maps that look pretty when zoomed out. He needs to put more thought into how the game plays rather than just how the game looks.

It's a shame, because the rest of the quest is great. Level/screen design is by far his weakest asset.

I'd like to finish this quest, but ZC bugged out on me and wiped all my saves icon_cry.gif

#19 Russ

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:28 AM

QUOTE(NoeL @ Feb 3 2012, 12:44 AM)  

and so many freaking dead ends! If I walk onto a screen and find myself immediately surrounded by unwalkable tiles, what was even the point of allowing me to walk there? To see the scenery from the other side of the screen? I'd show screenshots to illustrate my point, but practically every second screen has this problem.

I remember reading somewhere about how taunting players by showing them places they couldn't reach was a good idea. Guess I took that advice a little too close to heart. I'll keep that in mind for future reference.

QUOTE
There is no excuse for making those bottom two screen accessible inside that tiny little valley. There is nothing there!. There's nothing important above the valley either, so why not move it up three or four tiles and just use the two screens? Hell, since it only exists to waste time anyway, why not just put the cave on the top left screen and get rid of the unnecessary vines and stuff entirely?

To be completely honest, it looked too empty without something there. Looking back, the valley probably wasn't the best solution. I could probably have fit it all on one screen and filled in the rest of the empty space with something else.

QUOTE
The temple interiors were just ridiculous. No thought into creating anything functional, just stuck in as many corners as possible into one screen thinking complexity = aesthetic appeal. It does not. Just because you can create absurdly random shaped rooms doesn't mean you should.

Blame this one on dungeon carving. This was the first time I'd used it, and I was admittedly pretty crazy with it ("HOLY CRAP I CAN DRAW INSANE SHAPES AND ZQUEST DRAWS THE WALLS THIS IS AWESOME"). More open rooms = better design, got it.

QUOTE
Russ' design fails to factor in the screen-based nature of ZC and instead focuses on creating maps that look pretty when zoomed out. He needs to put more thought into how the game plays rather than just how the game looks.

Admittedly, yes, I focus more on the overall map than the individual screens. Guess I'll need to start focusing on a screen-by-screen bias more.

Thanks for taking the time to critique this NoeL. I always like knowing what I'm doing wrong so that I can try to fix it, so posts like yours really help me a lot. And sorry to hear about your saves, ZC does that occasionally. But oh well, guess that's the price we pay for using betas.

#20 NoeL

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:51 AM

QUOTE(Russ @ Feb 3 2012, 03:28 AM)  
I remember reading somewhere about how taunting players by showing them places they couldn't reach was a good idea. Guess I took that advice a little too close to heart. I'll keep that in mind for future reference.
There's a point where it's tantalising, and then there's the point where it's just annoying. To use an example from Zelda 1, a few screens west of the start you'll see a cave across a stream and think "Ooo! How do I get there!" because you want to see what's in the cave. It's tantalising. It's something. If the "something" is nothing more than walkable land and some enemies it's not tantalising. It's annoying. I feel I've just wasted my time scrolling all the way over into this screen, having nothing to do and gaining little to no useful information, then scrolling all the way back. And when this happens constantly... ugh.

There were times where you had a HC piece as the tantalising element, and they would have worked had it not been that most if not all of them were accessed through a cave. When I see a tantalising element like that, I want to try and trace my way over there. In the Z1 example I gave you can see that the screen can be entered from the north, so you can count the screens and figure out how to get over there. When it's a cave entrance it's like hitting a dead end. The entrance to the cave that connects to it could be anywhere (you tended to have them close by, which was good).

QUOTE(Russ @ Feb 3 2012, 03:28 AM)  
Thanks for taking the time to critique this NoeL.
No problem. Happy to help.


#21 Russ

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:14 PM

Alright, just a real quick, minor update here. First, after noticing that Link's Awakening had specific mountain tiles for overlook shots that somehow got left out of Pure, I ripped and edited them and edited the overlook shots so that the perspective makes more sense. Before, and after. Second, I put in a beam-activated switch in the Silent Hills. There was supposed to be one there initially, just like in the Flooded Forest, but I completely forgot to include it before I published the quest. icon_doh.gif The mediafire link is updated, and the Quest Database link will be next time the site updates.

#22 Anthus

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:46 PM

Hey there. I'm late playing this, but I'm using 2.5 and have noticed some bugs. Firstly, the game doesn't want to let me pause it. If I press enter nothing happens. When I got the first sword upgrade nothing happened as well. icon_frown.gif

This quest looks really awesome, and I love the music. I'd play it in the RC it was built in, but my computer will only run 2.5, and 2.10.2.

#23 Moosh

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

QUOTE(Anthus @ Jan 27 2013, 04:46 PM)  

Hey there. I'm late playing this, but I'm using 2.5 and have noticed some bugs. Firstly, the game doesn't want to let me pause it. If I press enter nothing happens. When I got the first sword upgrade nothing happened as well. icon_frown.gif

This quest looks really awesome, and I love the music. I'd play it in the RC it was built in, but my computer will only run 2.5, and 2.10.2.

I don't think this quest has an active subscreen which is why you can't view it.

#24 Russ

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

QUOTE(Anthus @ Jan 27 2013, 01:46 PM)  

Hey there. I'm late playing this, but I'm using 2.5 and have noticed some bugs. Firstly, the game doesn't want to let me pause it. If I press enter nothing happens. When I got the first sword upgrade nothing happened as well. icon_frown.gif

The pause thing is because, like Moosh said, there's no active subscreen, so the enter button is disabled. For the sword upgrade though, that's odd... Try holding the B button, instead of just tapping it.

#25 Schwa

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:37 PM

QUOTE
Scripting: Schwa and SpacemanDan for support and help,

QUOTE
Support and criticism: TS, SC, Schwa, and William, who all gave me support,


icon_shy.gif You're way too generous. Hehehe.

There's really no need to credit me just for me saying I like your stuff or give my opinion on things to change. But I've always thought it's one of your cutest and nicest characteristics as a person, that you go out of your way to do that. icon_kawaii.gif

Also, hi I'm back! Glad to see so much progress on your projects since I've been away! I ought to check the rest of your stuff out-- you've probably surpassed this one by far already.

#26 Russ

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

QUOTE(Schwa @ Jan 27 2013, 04:37 PM)  

icon_shy.gif You're way too generous. Hehehe.

There's really no need to credit me just for me saying I like your stuff or give my opinion on things to change.

Nah, you were a big source of motivation. Plus, the scripting help. You pretty much single-handedly taught me eweapon and lweapon scripting. The quest's main gimmick wouldn't have been possible if it weren't for you. icon_razz.gif

QUOTE
Also, hi I'm back!

YAY.

QUOTE
I ought to check the rest of your stuff out-- you've probably surpassed this one by far already.

Yes and no. My more recent stuff is much better than this, but it's not exactly released yet... But almost. At the rate I'm going, it should only be another month or two.

#27 Anthus

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:30 PM

Thanks for the the quick replies guys icon_smile.gif

Okay, the subscreen thing makes sense since there are no items. As for the first sword upgrade,
Spoiler


But it does nothing. Holding down charges my sword, but that's all.

#28 The Satellite

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:56 PM

I thought the sword abilities were different buttons? It's been a while so I forget which, wanna say they were... I don't even know the key names. L and R? EX1 and EX2? Dunno, try one of those.

#29 Russ

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

QUOTE(Anthus @ Jan 27 2013, 09:30 PM)  

But it does nothing. Holding down charges my sword, but that's all.

There's the issue, you're hitting the wrong button. A is used for slashing and spin attacking. You have to use B to use the sword beam, and L and R for the two powerups you'll get later. And yes, it is used to hit the switches in the caves.


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