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How do we feel about complicated raft paths?


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#1 Lynel Richie

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 10:30 AM

Currently, I have a small handful of raft paths going back and forth across a river that leads to a dungeon. It requires no thinking at all. I have been considering making a more complex series of raft paths where the player needs to hold the dpad in the right direct to go the secret way.

 

What is the consensus on this? Is the fun? Does it add a challenge? Or is just annoying?


Edited by Lynel Richie, 07 June 2020 - 10:31 AM.


#2 Russ

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 10:38 AM

It really depends on how its set up. Some quests (Lost Isle springs to mind) have raft branches clearly demarcated. If you're rafting, and there's a rock straight ahead, holding left or right when hitting the rock will cause you to steer that way. That's fine. Just throwing down raft branches willy nilly with no visual indication though probably isn't the best idea. It's not really a challenge, it's just trial and error to map out an invisible path.


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#3 Evan20000

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 04:20 PM

Alternatively using a web of raft nonsense as a soft lens check could work, but there's still better ways to do something like that in a lot of cases.


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#4 Avaro

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 04:35 PM

And no added twists and turns that make the path longer for no reason, please!



#5 klop422

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 06:54 PM

Yeah, if you can choose where to move that's probably fine, but one of the main criticisms of the first draft of An Item Fantasy (my quest) was the really dumb raft path which took you over about four screens more than it had to because of random twists and turns.

I forget, I think the first release is still on the Project Page, if you're desperately interested :P.

 

Really you want the path to be as straight as possible, though if it's a raft path maze then bits where you're going around in a circle are probably fine. And, as Aevin says, make it clear where the branches are (and as Evan suggested, doing something like that as a soft lens check - maybe having one or two completely unmarked ones with a hint somewhere that says "if you can see the truth you can raft well" or something like that - could work) and you should be ok.

 

EDIT: Ignoring technical advice, I realised I never mentioned: I personally do enjoy this kind of thing!


Edited by klop422, 07 June 2020 - 06:56 PM.


#6 Mani Kanina

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 07:57 PM

Raft path mazes are kind of meh, I really think that raft branches should only be used if you happen to have a raft path that needs to go to more than two docks.

The maze style of raft paths is the most basic kind of "dungeon" construction to do, a literal maze. Often in quests that do this kind of maze, critical information about your choices are off screen so you just kinda have to go everywhere and back and forth. On it's own merits I don't think this is super engaging gameplay.

But the worst part about the raft and raft mazes it that it cuts out all other gameplay options, you can't use your weapons, trying to dodge enemies on raft paths is kind of a trash fire, so it really just turn into a maze challenge, nothing else. I feel just constructing a regular maze (using NES dungeon screens prefabs, if so be it) would be more engaging, cause at that point at least you can use the rest of the mechanics the engine provides.


Edited by Mani Kanina, 07 June 2020 - 07:57 PM.

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#7 Architect Abdiel

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 07:21 AM

I'm with basically everyone else. The way ZC works, there's no reason to have complicated paths. It just takes away from times when you could be using more engaging gameplay.

Simplistic paths are best. I've also used it as a means of fast travel.

Either way anyways, like was said, don't even bother branching paths unless you have a clear indicator, and/or you are using it to go to different locations.

Otherwise you are just making Rafting Simulator 5000.
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#8 P-Tux7

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 04:53 PM

To the Top did things that I do not want to see in your quest

1. Manually-controlled raft. This could work if every terrain edge is a raft dock, but that's easy to accidentally trigger and could be annoying.

2. Whirlpools that damage the player and send them back to the raft dock. This combined with manually-controlled raft is just... no.


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#9 Lynel Richie

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 06:07 PM

To the Top did things that I do not want to see in your quest

1. Manually-controlled raft. This could work if every terrain edge is a raft dock, but that's easy to accidentally trigger and could be annoying.

2. Whirlpools that damage the player and send them back to the raft dock. This combined with manually-controlled raft is just... no.

 

I suppose one way to do it would make the flippers into a raft. Change the item tile and all of the swimming tiles. 



#10 Lynel Richie

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 06:28 PM

Here's what I ended up doing.

 

528_qbmr6u.png 528_qbmr56.png

 

The green rocks bump Link along in the same direction automatically and the brown rocks are where the raft branches are. There is a "guy" that explains this in a cave near the first dock. He says you need "lean in the direction you want go." There are multiple docks on different sides of the stream (3 or 4). The solution is not overly complicated but it's enough to make it a little better than sitting back and watching the raft take you to the dungeon. There is only one sort of trolly spot that makes you start restart the whole thing. There is also one secret path takes you to an optional item upgrade. 

 

Thank you very much for all of your opinions and help. 


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#11 P-Tux7

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Posted 10 June 2020 - 11:52 AM

I suppose one way to do it would make the flippers into a raft. Change the item tile and all of the swimming tiles. 

That's a good idea. ZC 2.55 allows to disable diving as well.



#12 Timelord

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 12:18 PM

I generally agree with the rest of this. Overly long and convoluted raft paths only serve to annoy the player. 2.55 now also has raft speed options.


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