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Is it Unhinged


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#16 Mitchfork

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 02:52 PM

Gonna raise the point that spare keys can be kinda good. Dungeon design where each key is paired with a corresponding lock encourages certain tendencies in players. You know the ones. The ones where they avoid "progress" in case there's something they've missed. 

There is no need to subtweet Deathrider here and I find it quite rude that you did.

 

(love you Deathrider!)


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#17 Sheik

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 03:02 PM

Same thought haha (love you too though, Moosh!)



#18 Timelord

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 09:12 PM

Everything that you're discussing is based upon a Divergence of game design philosophies. And the first Legend of Zelda game, you could literally buy keys at Shops. 

 

I see no problem with having extra keys and dungeons, particularly if it is difficult to manage key placement, nor do I see a problem with offering the player the choice to buy or find extra keys that they can save or creating alternate paths that they can explore.

 

I am unsure why this is in any way perplexing to any game designer as it is simply a choice between creating a fixed path that all players must use, or creating multiple paths that broaden the choice of the player so that they can create their own adventure.

 

Ultimately is left up to the creator of the game to determine what philosophy they wish to use, not up to some pedantic vote as to what is best and what is worse.


Edited by Timelord, 03 October 2023 - 09:13 PM.


#19 klop422

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Posted 06 October 2023 - 12:55 AM

Gonna raise the point that spare keys can be kinda good. Dungeon design where each key is paired with a corresponding lock encourages certain tendencies in players. You know the ones. The ones where they avoid "progress" in case there's something they've missed. When you're playing tug of war with players who try to metagame the structure of dungeon design it can be kinda tiresome. I don't think spare keys are necessarily the solution to this mindset, for some kinds of players it could even make it worse. But I like things that shake up design expectations and treating keys as a resource rather than a mandatory objective is one way to do that.


I'd just point out that I'm sort of this player, but I first noticed it in Final Fantasy or Pokémon - games that just have straight-up mazes for "dungeons" rather than locks and keys. I actually notice myself doing it a lot less in Zelda, because generally my goal is to see every part of the dungeon anyway, regardless of how many keys there are to every lock.


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