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#31 Russ

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 12:59 PM

I agree, the second looks the right size for an adult, and the third looks like a kid.

#32 SpacemanDan

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 06:20 PM

Hrm... It does seem to fit better with DoR. So, I decided to try to try a similar size as well. (I took Linkus's old template, and a shrunk it a down a bit manually.

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Does it work?

#33 Linkus

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 06:32 PM

Not really. Looks like you took more out of the top and dress; The neck is where I went wrong, as you shouldn't see it from a top-down angle.

#34 SpacemanDan

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 06:40 PM

I see what you mean. I'll make some changes later and post it probably tommorrow.

Edited by Blaman, 20 February 2009 - 06:45 PM.


#35 Radien

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 08:15 PM

Yeah, sorry about the screen example. I didn't really want to whip up a new screen, and I probably should have used something from Windfall Village instead, but I wanted something other people had seen before. Anyway, you're right, Zelda NPCs who are taller than the actual roof of the house are not entirely unusual, but LTTP's roofs are even lower than MC's (usually just 16 pixels).

True, MC Link is taller, but his body's the same size as LTTP Link while his head is ballooned. I wasn't sure what to make of it, so I left him out of the comparison.

QUOTE(Linkus @ Feb 19 2009, 04:59 PM) View Post
Well, I've given some thought into the size. While I want a larger sprite, I did notice a few errors on my end - But the result is smaller though.

But, I'll let you decide what's best:

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Normal - Fixed - Mini

Mini may be altered a bit more to become the child template, depending on what people say.

Also, for those who are working with the old template, you may want to rip the palette this picture is in. It's been updated - Noticing how it sticks out like a sore thumb in certain palettes (see Radien's pic for an example), it made me tweak the colors once more.

Well, the girl is still too big to look right up against 16x16 tiles, but I appreciate your effort; what you've got now is quite ideal for an enlarged DoR sprite set. Either the smaller or the smallest version could be used as the default adult NPC size, according to the questmaker's taste.

I do hope you or someone else draws enemies and player sprites to match. Many of MC's enemies are simply humongous, and LTTP enemies just don't look very good in comparison (for one thing, a lot of the now-traditional enemies are absent, and have instead been replaced with other enemies that aren't quite the same).

The only thing I'm wondering about is the palette, which isn't technically DoR. I know why you feel you need a new Cset...DoR Csets just don't offer enough skin tones for a hi-res sprite; they're made for Gameboy NPCs. (Well, actually they're made for enemies; NPCs mostly came along later. Damn you, ZC tileset legacy...) So the way I see it, if a questmaker doesn't want to rip a new CSet, there are two other options:

1. Use 8-bit mode and create lots of manually recolored tiles for variety, or
2. Use layering for the NPC's skin and vary hair/clothing color by changing CSets.

Layering seems more flexible to me. It's not very economical to use layers for such a trivial purpose, but there's always FFCs if you only need to layer a few tiles here and there.


Edit:

I'm not sure whether I really want to release these publicly (hence the unfriendly format), but I thought it would be beneficial to give a working example of what I think would be ideal for a DoR tileset with 16x16 monsters. Below are some examples of NPCs that I have ready to go in the Dance of Remembrance quest.

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The Goron was edited from a direct Minish Cap rip, while Saria was modeled after a fanmade MC-style Saria sprite. Mr. Z's Gerudo warrior is included for comparison. All of these sprites look good next to a Link who is 16x16 or slightly taller, but they are all, in fact, too big to fit into a 16x16 tile. Yes, even Saria.

(Oh, and they all use 8-bit mode.)

#36 SpacemanDan

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 09:12 AM

So, it was just the neck? If so, I took that out:
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Better?


#37 Linkus

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 10:08 PM

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Yep. The conversion's begun. I've settled on the smaller design, but went up to 24 pixels. It works, and doesn't look too squashed. icon_smile.gif

I'll get a template done tomorrow.


#38 Radien

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 02:08 AM

By the way, I remembered another reason why 24 pixels is a "magic number" of sorts.

You know the east and west doors in most tilesets, the kind that are four combos big? If Link's lower half is centered across those tiles in the usual way, he can be up to 24 pixels tall without causing his head to stick out from under the overhead part.

There are other problems, too, but if Link is under 24 pixels in height, most of them can be remedied by changing the size of Link's hitbox and altering some of the walk flags. After all, small Link is made to overlap many objects halfway, and "halfway" means "8 pixels." So in one sense, what you're doing is adding 8 pixels below the original Link tiles, rather than above.

Not sure if that makes sense the way I worded it... but... it's true.

#39 Linkus

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:52 PM

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Template's done. Also, I just decided to go with the mini size outright - It's the best fitting, and looks right overall in perspective.

I assure you - this IS the final change. No more after this one, okay?



#40 SpacemanDan

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 08:11 PM

Thanks for posting the template. Now I can get my sprites to look like they fit in properly. icon_razz.gif

#41 Russ

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 09:54 PM

That looks awesome! Nice work.

#42 Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 02:14 AM

Oh, so that means you'll be making sprites at the same size of the smallest one in that picture of yours, Linkus?
Either way, I'll try to make something with the template soon... I just wanna finish writing this thing I'm... uhh... writing.

#43 Radien

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 08:41 PM

QUOTE(Linkus @ Feb 22 2009, 07:52 PM) View Post

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Template's done. Also, I just decided to go with the mini size outright - It's the best fitting, and looks right overall in perspective.

I assure you - this IS the final change. No more after this one, okay?

So wait... are these two TOGETHER considered the smallest size (the smaller one would be the child), or are you going to make directional walking animations for the smaller of the two and use that size for the rest of them? I only ask because the walking animation there is the bigger of the two. Just curious.

By the way, a thought: if someday someone makes sprites that really are taller than 24 pixels, they should actually consider making some of them wider than 16 pixels, too. Most games with large sprites do that, because the characters need room to move their arms. For that we're talkin' SD3 size, though. Really big.

#44 Linkus

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:19 PM

Hey everyone, just here to give an update.

Well, I've started on the child sprite template, both male and female. Now, they are in the early stages, but it is coming along just fine.

However, I would also like to take notice to our current template. It's nice and all, but it's a little plain. Basically, I'd like to see a fitting alternative to the outfit that's out now - If you have any ideas, just spill them out here, or you can attempt to create it on your own if you want.

#45 Linkus

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 10:44 PM

Well, the children templates are done - Have at it!

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Now, for those who wonder what kind of changes you can make using the template, here's a nice example.

Meet Kora:

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First off, note that her hair is done in a ponytail, instead of let down. Secondly, she is not walking, but running, given the dynamic changes in the clothing and hair. Make note about the lack of the light ring on the hair as well - although id is used as a guide, some hair types do not have that kind of shine.

Finally, what does she looks like when animated? Here, take a look:

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Make note of the flow of animation. While it is four frames, two of which are the same, make note of the combined symmetry and asymmetry usage on certain details; it ends up creating an even flow on the character, without looking very choppy.

So, enjoy the new templates, and the animation\art lesson. icon_wink.gif




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