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#1 Reflectionist

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 02:23 PM

I could really use some feedback.  I'm planning my first quest, and after many attempts to make a single, unified, 16x16 overworld, I'm having some trouble.  I think what I'm going to do is have areas similar to the 3D Zeldas, save for Breath of the Wild.  But I also don't want my adventure to take place in Hubrule.  So I came up with this.

zd6ihGZ.png



So I'm trying to have a layout of what items I'm going to have for each area.  Solid lines indicate an open-air transition, like walking from the field to Kakriko Village.  It's just... walking there.  Dotted Lines indicate caves, and you'll notice, you can't get to Death Mountain without going into a cave, just like LttP.  

Is this too cliche?  I'm hoping for a somewhat more Metroid level flow, but not toooo terribly distant from Hyrule. Just... ya know, progression is "locks" and "keys".  

(Kinda spoilery, depending on my motivation, but I'm hoping to have this game bridge OoT and LttP with the geography being inspired by those games--except for Snowpeak, which I imagine was there in all games, just not needed or seen until TP.  At some point, the Hero will need to choose to sacrifice himself from the history books for the sake of Hyrule.  Over the quest, the Triforce is united [6pcs], the Pendants are forged from Stones [3pcs], you get the Master Sword, Hyrule falls and moves on, Ganon is sealed, and nobody ever finds out about the Forgotten Hero, the whole thing gets named the Imprisoning War).

----

EDIT --  You know, I don't even know that I want to make a whole game, I think I just want to design an overworld.  We'll see how far I can get with this, and then if anyone else wants to collaborate based on what I can come up with... I'm probably going to be down for not designing dungeons and stuff...
 


Edited by Reflectionist, 28 November 2016 - 03:00 PM.

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#2 Sheik

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 02:33 PM

I am getting an 403.

Reminder: To post the image put the direct (!) link (ending with .jpeg, .png, .gif. or whatever you have) in the image-tags (img) and (/img) (with square brackets though) or use the tool in the editor.


Edited by Sheik, 28 November 2016 - 02:34 PM.


#3 Reflectionist

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 02:50 PM

Fixed.  I think.
Sorry about that!  Google Drive is crap, and Photobucket started giving me problems, so I had to start an imgur.


Edited by Reflectionist, 28 November 2016 - 02:51 PM.

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#4 Sheik

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 03:21 PM

Seems like a pretty straight forward thing, kind of OoT x aLttP x Z1 in terms of landscapes. Maybe a little too ambitious (as in: very big) but could certainly be a fun thing.


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#5 Reflectionist

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 03:39 PM

Well, no area is going to be any larger than 8x8 screens, which works out because that's exactly what I found to print off.  A lot of those areas won't need all of that, but my original idea made some of the areas seem a little cramped, while I had too much space in other areas.  This way makes it a little easier on me.  It's probably ambitious, but I think I can do the overworld, provided I follow some basic rules.  I've got ideas for the dungeons, but not really enough yet to go on.  Moosh helped me out with a few scripts, for cliffs, bottles, and npcs, so it shouldn't be too difficult.  I'm doing as much pencil and paper as I can before even really opening ZQuest, though.  I've literally only been checking to see how many tiles I need to fill in to correctly mark out where my mountain tiles and ridges are going to be. 



#6 Sheik

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 03:50 PM

I wouldn't even say it's too cramped in the old mockup. The Gameboy Zelda games used 16x16 maps (afaik) and still managed to put 8 dungeons in there. But sure, if you think that it would be too claustrophobic in the 16x16 square you should probably go bigger.



#7 Reflectionist

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 03:56 PM

Ultimately, it may be less screens, haha.  I just want to make sure each area is fleshed and makes sense.  :P

Thanks for the feedback!


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#8 Reflectionist

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 04:46 PM

A couple of things I'm wanting to know, and I might as well just throw them out here.

For Bomb Bags, Arrow Quivers, and Wallets.  
If you don't have a bomb bag, do enemies still drop bombs to pick up?
I don't want you to have to pick up upgrades in order, I'd rather just be when you find an upgrade, it gives you the next level up of whatever you have.  I'm 99% sure that even if it's possible to do bomb / arrow upgrades the same way as LttP, via a pond of happiness type idea, I don't want to make that many custom bomb bag / quiver items.  

Moosh gave me a great idea for making Fairy Fountains that I'm definitely going to be taking advantage of... I'm a guy that seriously never honestly beat the first LoZ because of the Darknuts in L7, so I'm glad that I can put in Fairy Fountains, Potions and Bottles.  But I'm also going to have a "Cave of Ordeals" / "Savage Labyrinth" kind of thing.  So, is there a resource online that might help me scale the enemies appropriately for the areas?  I don't want to be an idiot and throw a Lynel at a player that doesn't have a shield yet, for example.  



#9 Saffith

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 10:14 PM

Yes, enemies will drop bombs if you don't have a bomb bag. They just won't do anything when you pick them up.

You could make your bomb bags and quivers increase their respective ammo limits without needing a separate item for each level. Just set "Increase Counter Max" under the pickup tab, and it'll increase it that much each time you pick one up. But if the expansions are given out by a scripted thing anyway, you don't even need the items; the script can just set the counter maximum directly.
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#10 grayswandir

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 08:56 PM

Cramped or not really depends on the tileset you're using. Classic or gb tilesets can get away with the same content in a lot less screens than, say, pure.


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#11 Kivitoe

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 05:07 PM

Yes, enemies will drop bombs if you don't have a bomb bag. They just won't do anything when you pick them up.

You could make your bomb bags and quivers increase their respective ammo limits without needing a separate item for each level. Just set "Increase Counter Max" under the pickup tab, and it'll increase it that much each time you pick one up. But if the expansions are given out by a scripted thing anyway, you don't even need the items; the script can just set the counter maximum directly.

That's one of the reasons why I don't use bomb bags in my quests. I prefer the more straight-forward: Link kills enemy, enemy drops bomb, Link can use bomb.

 

That's a pretty cool map you've got there. I might do the same thing for my quests.


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#12 Reflectionist

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:53 AM

Cramped or not really depends on the tileset you're using. Classic or gb tilesets can get away with the same content in a lot less screens than, say, pure.

I'm using DoR Hybrid, but with the state the quest is in now, you wouldn't know it.  I've just been working on making the maze work.  I'm finding that overtly treating the Overworld as a maze, and items / obstacles or puzzles as keys and locks is simplifying the entire process.  I'm just making sure the Dmaps and warps are set properly and consistently, with just enough to identify the areas, so the maps aren't much to look at.

OA4SnK9.png?1

Luckily, I'm also trying to include a lot of Zelda lore into the quest, so it'll feel really similar to an official game.

 

That's one of the reasons why I don't use bomb bags in my quests. I prefer the more straight-forward: Link kills enemy, enemy drops bomb, Link can use bomb.

 

That's a pretty cool map you've got there. I might do the same thing for my quests.

Hmm.  I don't yet know if I can do something with the Item Drop Set editor yet, but that point's still a ways off.  Thanks for the compliments on the map! At first my goal was just to show the relationships between areas--I think using DoR-H necessitates the use of sectioned-off "region" maps a la the 64 games, but I also don't want Hubrule

 

Basically, I'm shooting for something more open world than OoT,  but slightly less open world than LttP.  If there were a slider for that sort of thing.  


---

Below I'm putting my notes for items and dungeons, but it's a bit long, so I'll put it in spoiler tags.  I'm not sold on this arrangement yet, but the things that are include the 6 Triforce dungeons and their themes.  Where it says "Power," "Wisdom," or "Courage," that refers to both what Triforce piece resides there, and the effect that piece has on the dungeon's focus, Combat, Puzzle-Solving, or Exploration respectively.

Spoiler


...So yeah, definitely interested in making this project a collaboration... 


Edited by Reflectionist, 14 December 2016 - 04:37 AM.

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#13 Anthus

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 10:40 AM

I like this a lot, even though it is in its infancy. Your way of planning quests seems similar to mine; fast and loose. I have so many notepad files, I could make a novel by now.


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#14 Reflectionist

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 07:42 PM

I like this a lot, even though it is in its infancy. Your way of planning quests seems similar to mine; fast and loose. I have so many notepad files, I could make a novel by now.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one.  I actually downloaded the Zim desktop wiki specifically for this purpose.  I highly recommend it for organizing thoughts.  I think you still end up with a bunch of notepad files, but at least they're organized and buried, and you can open them in one client, and add some basic formatting via the client. 

 

vMSuKIe.png


Edited by Reflectionist, 14 December 2016 - 07:47 PM.

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#15 Anthus

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 07:48 PM

That program looks very helpful, indeed. I've been looking for a good organizer for a while. I tried using xmind, but it's not exactly right for this purpose. This looks cool though, as as the name implies, it seems to organize stuff like a wiki page. I have used regular word processors, and spreadsheets too (I have a 30+ page one for a NES demake of ALttP that I'm too lazy to start, but maybe if it can be even more organized) but it is hard to keep the pages, and ideas organized, and more importantly, easy to find, and use.

 

I will be trying this program out, like, literally right now, as I'm working on something. :)


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