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Discussion: Did BotW Lose Focus???


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#1 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 01:10 PM

I brought this up in discord last night. 

 

This is by no means a topic intended to criticize or hate on The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, but a discussion piece that came to my mind last night after a friend explained to me that he felt Zelda has strayed too far to "modernize" itself. He feels that this game simply just tried too hard to be something it's not, and has put itself in direct competition to already existing open world games, which he feels there are just better games to play in that genre. I think he was specifically referring to The Witcher 3 since that's probably the only game he likes in the genre. lol

 

Now his opinion aside, this got me thinking. 

 

There is a part of his argument that made me realize that this game does take a lot of tropes and trends popular in the genre that you'd find in games such as The Witcher 3, The Elder Scrolls (and Fallout), and Far Cry.

 

Now this makes me think. Wasn't Nintendo's intention here to make this Zelda game feel like Zelda 1? and when I really look at it. This game feels much more like those games that I listed above than it would ever give me the Zelda 1 experience. 

 

Some would argue that this point is moot because "Breath of the Wild is just better than those games listed above", but that'll just be your own personal opinion. So I want to make the discussion with that bias aside (that includes Metacritic reviewer bias too. Metacritic reviews doesn't add objectivity to this discussion), did Nintendo really lose focus here? In their attempt modernize itself with popular tropes in the genre today, did it completely stray from it's original plan to be similar to Zelda 1 in regards to the core concept. 

 

Don't get me wrong, it's okay to modernize yourself, but something tells me they leaned too far modern, and too less their own original goal. 

 

Please discuss. 


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#2 The Satellite

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 01:31 PM

Lose focus? I don't think so at all. I think they actually did want to try something new, and their core concept was very prevalent. Honestly, they captured the Zelda 1 feeling to me because the idea was to let you loose in this world and find/learn things for yourself, with a bit of modernized element to it. And they accomplished their goal: Big open world that you could tackle any way you wanted, with your climbing and gliding, your runes, and your own abilities. So in that way, I don't think they lost focus at all. Oh, for sure, they used some elements of open world games that preexisted, but I don't think that hurt their experience at all. I think some elements (sidequests/rewards) could've been done better, and I definitely think we needed more than a few traditional dungeons, but Nintendo was trying to work on something new, something I think worked. Now they just need to blend in the best elements of the past games (i.e. traditional dungeons) and they'll have something that sticks.

 

Plus if you ask me, Zelda combat is just way better than other open world game combat.



#3 Jamian

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 01:49 PM

It did remind me a lot of the Elder Scrolls series. It felt like a mix of Zelda 1, Elder Scrolls, and to a lesser extent Shadow of the Colossus (because of all the climbing, and all the vast areas where you won't meet any lifeform). Which is not a bad thing; I enjoyed that a lot.

 

IMO it's totally ok to want to evolve beyond the traditional formula, and take inspiration from other, more recent, series. Zelda 1 was groundbreaking when it was released, and I love it. But if the same game was released today, hardly anybody would care.



#4 LinktheMaster

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 02:02 PM

I don't think they really lost their focus. Their focus from what I've read was not really just to 100% make it just like a 3D Zelda 1 game, but more to take Zelda's core components and re-implement them in a way that was still true to Zelda 1, but also broke away from the norms of the recent Zelda games, and I think they got that down pat. I think the core components that they have are that it's an adventure with magic, items, and dungeons. While open worlds aren't a core mechanic of the series, it was a big part of Zelda 1.

 

That being said, I do hope that the next game kind of finds more middle ground with that they achieved and the other recent Zelda games. I don't want a BotW 2, I want something with less of a focus on micro dungeons and more of a focus on major dungeons. Maybe something with like half as many shrines (maybe even less) and have at least 2-3 more main dungeons. But, I think that's getting off this topic's subject.



#5 Anthus

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 03:00 PM

Let me offer an analogy: Breath of the Wild is to The Witcher 3/ Elder Scrolls what Metroid Prime was to Call of Duty/ Quake. Both Nintendo IPs borrow a ton of elements from the styles of games they are often compared to, but they usually do it in a way that is different. These differences can be huge changes like having a lock on mechanic in an FPS like Metroid Prime, or they can be more subtle like BotW's reliance on the player making choices, and taking it in at your own pace. That is something we haven't seen in the series for a while, so perhaps it does stray, but I hardly think it has effected the end product, or series negatively.

 

That is different from past games which, if you ask me, games like SS, and even TP (in spite of it still being good) lost focus with the Zelda formula. They were too busy trying to make a "Zelda" game. I know that sounds dumb, but hear me out on this one. They were going for the tried and true, formulaic approach that has grown stale by now. Not bad per se, but stale. Three McGoobers, get the MacGiffin Blade, do some more McTempledoos, and kill Gannnnnon and explore a segmented part of overworld in between with a set path basically up until the end. This was SS to the t and to a much lesser extent, TP. To me, that is losing focus. They forgot what made Zelda magical in the first place. They were just going through the motions. AlttP improved on Zelda 1. OoT took the AlttP formula, and used it as a launching pad, and a safe space to go into 3D from. And since then, pretty much every main Zelda has been trying to do that again, self imposing the same design philosophies that may have been in place simply cause of technical performance of the system at the time. But, I digress.

 

That was, until BotW turned the franchise formula on its ear, and also brought in ideas from other series', new to the Zelda series and they were really well executed, and created a great game. They really zeroed in here, and for me, hit the nail on the head. BotW is by no means perfect, and there are things that annoy me about it, but over all, it's the best, most fresh Zelda since OoT, or maybe even WW.

 

When OoT came out, there was no other 3D Zelda standard. The game that every subsequent game in the series would be compared to didn't exist yet. It was a pretty big deal, and a monumental leap for the franchise, and gaming as a whole. It was clunky in spots, but it showed what we could do. It opened the floodgates of ideas, inspirations, and refinements that decades more of gaming could bring us. It captivated us. It took our breath away. Breath of the Wild brings that full circle for me, and even sets the new standard in what the series could do. For the first time, in a long time, I am genuinely eager about the future of the series. I don't have to expect a cookie cutter Zelda experience. For a single game to reignite a spark within me, subjectively, shows how great this was, and how it was focused, and excels at being a Zelda title in every way.

 

To answer the question at hand here, no, I do not think it lost focus. The exact opposite actually. I think it was way more focused than recent past titles. It was the closest thing to the original NES Zelda in execution we've seen in years. Decades even. Nintendo may have accidentally created the open world genre that so many other titles fail to stand out in 30 years ago, and they proved they can still do it again today.

 

And NJF, have you even played BotW yet? :blah:



#6 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:22 PM

And NJF, have you even played BotW yet? :blah:

 

No, but I own it. 

 

Spoiler


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#7 Moonbread

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:15 PM

Breath of the Wild is inspired by Zelda 1 in a lot of ways for sure, but when I think about what made Zelda what it was back in the day, it was that there really wasn't a proper formula for a while.  That is how Breath of the Wild is a return to form- it was going back to its roots of the series trying new, experimental things rather than just rehashing things with a couple new things added.  Zelda 2 was a completely different take on what Zelda was, ALttP greatly polished what was established in Zelda 1 by adding in a bunch of new items, mechanics, and ways to tell a stronger story; and games like LA and Majora's Mask dropped the traditional Zelda story for something much more bizarre.  While there were certain elements that were kept from game to game, they used to be a lot better at keeping it fresh.  I think the series onward continued to give us good games, but they were too strongly relying on the same gimmicks and themes we'd seen half a dozen times and it no longer felt like the 90s and early 2000s where the series was really pushing itself.  I mean, I think games like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are good in their own rights, but neither really seem to push the envelope that much compared to how ALttP and Ocarina of Time did.  Breath of the Wild feels like the first time in a while that the series has really pushed itself beyond the scope of what it did before.

 

Anyway, I'd say we're also seeing something very similar with how Super Mario Odyssey is being received right now- the NSMB games *definitely* rely on a very blatant formula and as a result, people have gotten really tired of it.  3D Land and World (moreso the latter) were good steps toward doing something new, but still relied on a lot of the same old SMB stuff.  Back in the day, Super Mario games used to be radically different from each other, with their own individual styles of level design and aesthetics.  SMB1, SMW, and Super Mario 64 are all distinguishable from what they each did.

Edit: I feel like I should also add that like, after playing Breath of the Wild (and still playing it), I love how much the game respects the player.  It really felt like the older Zelda games where I would die just because I was unprepared for what was ahead, in the direction I chose.  It felt really fresh because it wasn't trying to ease me into this big new world with constant tutorial bullshit.  It just threw me in and basically said, "Well, good luck.  Figure it out on your own."  That, to me, definitely feels more like the epitome of an old-school Zelda.  As a kid playing Zelda 1, it was certainly easy to stumble upon a screen that had a mix of enemies that could get overwhelming, and I just had to deal with it.  It also felt like a much bigger world 20 years ago, and I'd just get lost figuring out where I'd want to go next.  Though, to be honest, I think it encompasses the best parts of the 80s and 90s era of Zelda.  You have Zelda 1's open world, Zelda 2's bullshit hard encounters, ALttP's storytelling style and general guidance (giving you a goal and suggestions of where you can go next, but ultimately leaving it up to you), Link's Awakening's stronger characterization, and Ocarina of Time's puzzle complexities and... that feeling of when you first step into Hyrule Field.


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