42 replies to this topic

[ShadowTiger]

First of all, I want you all to read this. Read it well. I won't tolerate any "tl;dr" (Too long; Didn't read.) comments. Too many people are just skimming through topics and thinking that they know everything there is to know, only to find themselves banned in two seconds for flinging their **** around like they own the place. It's disgusting.

To copy and paste what I wrote in a now-locked thread elsewhere in GD:

This is what the debate forum is for. If people here continue to exhibit this type of behavior in Debate Forum type threads outside of the Debate Forum itself, we may have to start moving threads in there just so we can keep people out of them because they can't seem to control themselves anywhere.

I know that these issues are passionate to you, but you can't keep flinging your opinions where other people don't want to see them if they're going to react like this. I can't believe I'm saying this, but there are people here who just shock me. They just outright shock me into speechlessness. Then I have to make a little speech like this and make everyone hate me and those around me who have to silence people just because they're making other people unhappy.

If you ask me, that's just downright unfair. None of this is fair.

I'm waiting for the day when we all learn to do the following things:

* To keep our opinions to ourselves; simply not stating them at all.
* Or, to cite our opinions with so much tact that there is no possible way to state an opposing opinion using any less tact out of fear of disrespecting the person who had said it so kindly and gently, in as much of a way that you would not dare insult a birthday gift your own mother had thoughtfully purchased for you when it's exactly what you've always wanted.
* ... ... FYI, "tact" means to phrase your words in a way that doesn't, and hopefully, can't offend anyone. You could walk up to Hitler himself and call him a Jew if you wanted to, and if you had used enough tact, he'd probably take you into bed with him and feed you his own puppy. Tact is useful. Use it. If you don't know how to use it, learn. There's very little more important in the world. That's why I mentioned it in two bullets rather than one. If I were smarter I would think of more examples to fit into a third and fourth, but I'm not.
* Stop. Just stop. If people are throwing around things things that offend you, I would at least expect you to have the moral intelligence to realize that there are offensive things being tossed up in the air and you yourself (Yes. You. You, the reader.) should know that if these are offensive, there should be no more presented anywhere except in the Debate Forum. The fact that people are still responding with Debate Forum type responses is amazing. If you want to post something that you feel would be religious or philosophical, by all means, join the Debate Forum. It's not that hard to get into. It really isn't. I don't know why people insist on posting it in GD for that reason. I know that it's not fair to restrict these types of conversations into the Debate Forum when there are some people here who don't have the postcount to access it, nor the access to the forum at all, but at this point, after so much of this has been going on over the years, It's time that people stop walking all over the no-trolling policy and we do something about it that sticks in peoples' heads.


Seriously people; the conversations are still going on in the Debate Forum. If you want to engage in them, join it and don't flame, troll, or avoid the use of tact. People will be civil, proper, and intelligent within its walls. If you aren't, then nobody will want to see you post in there. It's not hard.



Respond any way you'd like. Flame/Troll me via PM. Whine to me. Kick me in the shins. Join the Debate Forum just to spite me. Do whatever you want to me. Just keep in mind that you're posting with other people here. Real people. They're not just here to generate opinions for you to test your mettle against. That's what the Debate Forum is for, and even that isn't without its "safety instruments." Your words aren't sharp swords. They're heavily padded wooden training batons. PureZC is not a professional debate forum and its users aren't equipped to brandish their wit like a rapier and recover from a slashing of their opponent's even sharper one. If you want to Debate, do it nicely.

The trolling stops now. If you want to chastise another user, do it via ME. You hear me? If you want to tell a person to stop being an idiot, you PM ME about it and let ME do the work, if you feel that you can't use words nice enough to get the job done without hurting their feelings. When someone's feelings become hurt, they become like a wounded animal. They'll do anything it takes to get their point across, including get themselves banned while taking you out in the process.

[NoeL]

Nicely said, with the exception of the first bullet point. I believe the one at fault is one who interprets another's opinion as a personal attack towards them, not one who merely states their opinion.

I'd just PMed Noir about similar issues prior to you posting this. I wholeheartedly believe the problem is with those that find a post offensive, and decide to retaliate in the thread.

[Rocksfan13]

I fully agree with ST's entire post.

Honestly, if you all want to discuss such things, come to the Debate Forum.
That's what it's there for.
It's a little more lenient in there, but the rules are very strict and are never bent.
We've had very little problems with members flaming or trolling in there.
It's very easy to be there, it's also easy to leave if you feel offended or just don't want to be part of it anymore. Nobody is going to hold it against you.
I'd hate to see a mass banning because some people take discussions in the GD forum too far like the one that prompted this announcement.
Seriously, if you want to discuss your beliefs on this stuff, join the DF and post it there and feel free from being bomarded with blatant trolls or flames. It's really that simple.
Just because you can't see the forum doesn't mean it isn't active. Believe me, it is. It gets posts almost every day.
Wanna see? Come join.

[Majora]

The problem with debate threads anywhere (here too, which is why I'm posting this post) is that the people in charge/with authority/power/whatever will always show some bias to either side of the debate. I'm not going to name names, and I will refrain from saying anymore lest I offend someone or cause problems.

Edited by Majora, 05 December 2007 - 01:22 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

Nicely said, with the exception of the first bullet point.

Thanks. The first point was really just a "SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP" kind of thing. It completely clashes with the two or so points below it, so just take those together and make whatever you will out of them. Opinions are useful for gaging your stance on a particular issue, but can also go so far as to offend a person with your beliefs if stated poorly. Refer to my Hitler-Jew example.

I believe the one at fault is one who interprets another's opinion as a personal attack towards them, not one who merely states their opinion. I'd just PMed Noir about similar issues prior to you posting this. I wholeheartedly believe the problem is with those that find a post offensive, and decide to retaliate in the thread.

That's one part of it. It's rough when there's a lot out there that looks like an insult when it's just an actual debate topic, but in the end, we do likely have to consider both parties, not just those easily offended. Logic goes both ways.

The problem with debate threads anywhere (here too, which is why I'm posting this post) is that the people in charge/with authority/power/whatever will always show some bias to either side of the debate. I'm not going to name names, and I will refrain from saying anymore lest I offend someone or cause problems.

Name them in a PM to me, please? o.o *Is curious*

[Lemon]

I basically agree, though I still think the staff jumped the gun on closing that thread. As far as I saw it, there was a troll post, than someone (someone always has to do this to, and it bugs the living hell out of me) posts about how the thread should be closed, than the rest of the thread was back on track... and probably would have just gone the way most threads do if left alone .

[ShadowTiger]

It's a better solution than banning the member. If people can get it into their minds that if they continue to act that way, they won't have anything to act on, they will have nothing TO act on in the future. It's either them or the thread, and if they're the cause of everyone else's anguish, they had better learn to avoid doing such things in the future. That way they either remain unbanned and fix the issue, or find themselves banned for being unable to do so.

[Old-Skool]

unfortunate that this is perhaps the third pinned thread reminding people to be cautious around the subject. Intelligent members I've noticed that have nothing good to say about it will remain quiet and ignore the topic. Much appreciated, guys. However some people who just can't imagine others believing in religion or philosophy swarm like mosquitoes to these topics even after three pinned threads about it. Maybe this forum is not yet prepared to handle such issues?

Edit: An angry PM from someone who thought I was placing them in the latter of these two types of people was actually the prime person I had in mind for the former, the "intelligent" group. See, I show my appreciation for him and this is what I get ( ). Also, for everyone, when you read a post, read the entire post until you understand it all the way. There is no excuse.

Edited by Old-skool, 06 December 2007 - 07:01 PM.

[Skipper]

I'm sickened. Utterly sickened.

To think I trusted the majority of PureZC. To think I believed that my recent thread would result in little to no flaming...


Honestly, I was half-tempted to post it in the Debate Forum. I really was. But then, I thought to myself, "Well, it's not really a debate. I'm just asking people what their beliefs are."

But to think it ended in flaming, trolling, and a locked topic... that sickens me.


PureZC members, grow up. Just do us all a favor and grow up. If you don't have anything nice to say, then shut up and keep your mouth shut. Or in this case, don't respond to the threads.

Edited by Skipper, 06 December 2007 - 10:01 AM.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

I'm sickened. Utterly sickened.

To think I trusted the majority of PureZC. To think I believed that my recent thread would result in little to no flaming...


Honestly, I was half-tempted to post it in the Debate Forum. I really was. But then, I thought to myself, "Well, it's not really a debate. I'm just asking people what their beliefs are."

But to think it ended in flaming, trolling, and a locked topic... that sickens me.


PureZC members, grow up. Just do us all a favor and grow up. If you don't have anything nice to say, then shut up and keep your mouth shut. Or in this case, don't respond to the threads.

Yeah! I agree with yours and ST's post!
I'm so tired of dumb replies.
I've probably done it myself, but I can still say I don't like it...
But then again, look at the real world. War... why was there war in the first place? Religion. That's right!
Maybe we shouldn't bring up stuff like this again, cause some people just can't stand hearing that others don't believe in the same as they do.

[ShadowTiger]

AGN really doesn't mind these kinds of threads. They have a Debate Forum that knows how to do what it does, and they *ACTUALLY DON'T* tolerate any single flame or troll at all. If you want a really good debate, or to belittle someone, go there. You'll have a lot more of a chance to see "results" there.

(Results may vary. See ban message for details.)

[NoeL]

War... why was there war in the first place? Religion. That's right!

I'd list territory before religion Religion has been responsible for a lot of bloodshed, but I wouldn't say it's the sole reason we fight.

Also, I was the one who sent the angry PM to Old-Skool. Simple misunderstanding. [/offtopic]


I guess this thread has said all it needs to: two wrongs don't make a right. If someone does the wrong thing, don't retaliate, report it or ignore it.

[Animus01]

If religion ceased to exist, the wars would still continue (heck, probably at a greater intensity). Religion did not create the American Revolution (it was more about representation in the English government), the Civil War (ultimately started over territory matters between the USA and the CSA), and the World Wars (I don't know much about the first, but Hitler was attempting to conquer all of Europe in the second). Stirring up trouble between two parties also causes wars. In this case, the resulting war may not be against the troublemaker, but against two parties riled up by that troublemaker.

In conclusion, religion does NOT start wars. It starts by a poor decision or series of poor decisions led by one party that negatively affects the other party, or by a troublemaker that riles up two parties to bring them into war.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

If religion ceased to exist, the wars would still continue (heck, probably at a greater intensity). Religion did not create the American Revolution (it was more about representation in the English government), the Civil War (ultimately started over territory matters between the USA and the CSA), and the World Wars (I don't know much about the first, but Hitler was attempting to conquer all of Europe in the second). Stirring up trouble between two parties also causes wars. In this case, the resulting war may not be against the troublemaker, but against two parties riled up by that troublemaker.

In conclusion, religion does NOT start wars. It starts by a poor decision or series of poor decisions led by one party that negatively affects the other party, or by a troublemaker that riles up two parties to bring them into war.

Well... I agree on that... but look at ww2! Huh?
Wasn't hitler angry at the jews?
Right... I may not be the best guy in history, but I'm pretty sure religion has started many wars.

[ShadowTiger]

Honestly, I really don't care how it started. I just don't want it to start HERE. Do we dig?


I'm personally still working out that internal conflict as to whether it's the exploration of the limits of tolerance via insistence on depositing random articles of scientific ... Well, ... science ... which is posted boldly in the face of religious users, or the religious users not being able to tolerate such things and feeling the need to retaliate.

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To put it into an analogy: Person A is about to sit down and person B holds a pencil upright on the chair, where person A would sit on that pencil and scream. Who is responsible for the disruption of the classroom?

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