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The Adventure of Link and Zelda: Panoply of Calatia (Demo)


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#1 Mitsukara

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 08:07 PM

---- Download Demo ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the Demo.
Make sure to get the enhanced music soundtrack here!
 
---- Screenshots ---------------------------------------------------------------------

PC1.png  PC2.png

 

PC3.png  PC4.png

 

PC5.png  PC6.png

 

PC7.png  PC8.png

 

PC9.png  PC10.png

---- Quest Description ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Play as both Link and Zelda!
- Switch characters to wield different weapons and use items differently!
- Your partner can auto-attack to help battle monsters together!
- Separate and rejoin, and even switch places from across the room!
 
Wield loads of newly-scripted items!
- B-Button Ladder, Adjustable-Range Boomerangs, Beetle, Cane of Somaria, note-by-note Flute, and many more!
- Level up system recreated from Zelda II!
- Gameplay focuses primarily on item puzzles, with multiple possible solutions.
 
Battle newly-scripted bosses, minibosses, and enemies!
- Confront enemies from Zelda II: The Adventure of Link!
- Monsters from other Zelda games also appear, and a few brand new ones, too.
- Hide beneath bridges to avoid enemies above you!
 
Multiple ways to play!
- Nonlinear dungeon order and negotiable key usage.
- Changeable dungeon music!
- Mode Menu lets you adjust difficulty and game behavior!
- Optional "Error Mode" simulates a malfunctioning game cartridge for strange experiences!
- Enter the filename "MICKEY" to play as different characters (this change is purely aesthetic).
 
---- About this Demo Version ---------------------------------------------------------------------

This demo contains an 8x8 portion of the overworld, a few cutaway areas, and four small-ish dungeons, which can be completed in any order. The story is brief and simplistic, imitating an NES game in tone and grammatical proficiency. The graphics are based mainly on Zelda 1 and II, with taller player and monster sprites in sideview.
 
The complete quest will feature a total of 18 dungeons, a 16x8 overworld and 10x12 overworld (a recreation of Hyrule as seen in Zelda II: The Adventure of Link), and numerous cutaway areas. Most of this content is already complete, and I hope to release the finished quest before the end of this year (we'll see).
 
For progress updates or beta-testing participation, please see the Project Page.

 

(Reason for editing: To line up the screenshots a little better.)


Edited by Mitsukara, 10 October 2016 - 08:01 AM.

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#2 a30502355

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 09:14 AM

I'd say this is definitely the best entry in the expo! The Demo is filled with fun scripts to play! Even the ones that only aesthetically change the game like the enemy names put a lot of charm into this quest. Screen design is a little clustered, but still plays nicely. No question I'll definitely try it out once the full quest comes out!  



#3 ywkls

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 02:05 PM

I may be slightly prejudiced in favor of this quest, since I've been helping to test it for a while now, but despite the classic tileset used; it's really good.

 

I haven't played the shortened demo, mostly because I'm waiting to start the quest over again in a short time via testing but here's what I can say about this quest.

 

Pros:

 

Very outside the box thinking is required for a lot of things, including puzzle solving, boss battles and dungeon progression.

A lot of neat, never-before-seen scripted items and abilities.

Lots of custom enemies and bosses too.

Plenty of content with dungeons that vary widely in design and scope.

 

Cons:

 

Uses older tileset, but is forgivable since it's trying to capture the original Zelda feel.

It isn't done yet. :whistle:

 

I'm looking forward to the final product, especially considering how well everything has gone so far.



#4 Titanium Justice

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 06:58 PM

Best thing I've seen from the expo so far. Amazing the amount of scripting that has gone into this. It feels like a full-fledged Zelda game from the NES.



#5 Mitsukara

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 09:19 AM

Thanks for the feedback! : )

 

I've been making this quest for a year now and I'm pretty close to done (I finished the final boss a few days ago actually, but there's more to fix and test and polish), but I'm still open to feedback regarding anything I should maybe change or fix. Also, please let me know if it gets laggy (and under what circumstances if that comes up)...
 

Screen design is a little clustered, but still plays nicely.

Do you mean the subscreen up at the top is clustered, or the overworld/dungeon areas?

 

In any case, thank you for playing!


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#6 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:21 AM

What version of ZC is this quest being built for?



#7 Mitsukara

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 01:17 PM

It's currently being built in 2.50.2. I think it may work with earlier versions; I originally started making it in 2.50.1 and only updated to 2.50.2 halfway through, without any apparent version issues.


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#8 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 06:57 PM

My favorite demo so far. It had a few quirks that I felt I needed to complain about. I even had to F6 once because I got trapped in a room. When the full LP is out you'll get to see more.

 

Still though, you should create a banner for this quest as I'll want to add it to my signature for most anticipated quests. 

 

Oh ya, I rated this a 5. 



#9 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 07:16 PM

Just a little suggestion. To shorten the length of this quest's name, I feel "The Adventure of" really isn't needed and the quest would actually sound a bit better with just:

 

Link and Zelda: Panoply of Calatia


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#10 Avaro

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 10:33 AM

This quest is great! It's definetly 5-star worthy for me so far. I'm really looking forward to the finished quest. I hope you'll be able to complete it Mitsukara :)

 

I absolutely loved the sideview dungeon. The other dungeons are great too. I like the puzzles. I also like the weather and time features. There's so much about this quest to like, it's amazing. What was the hardest thing to script? I imagine that's gonna be hard to answer.

 

Playing through this demo I wrote a bunch of suggestions and questions. I found a bug too which I'll list first:

 

- I used the flute in front of a tablet that tought me a song. When I used the note "A" my game froze, but I was able to F6 and continue.

 

- The subscreen sure is messy, but that's because there's so many things you are showing. The placement of the weather indicator seems weird, being right above my coin counter. It actually seems pointless too, besides being able to tell the weather whithout being outside. Wait... Why do I have coins AND rupees? Are coins limited? What are they for?

 

- The Ex 3 button to toggle autofire is not entirely useless, but I don't know if it was a good idea to have an extra button just for that. The controls are really overwhelming because there are so many buttons.

 

-The entire quest is overwhelming because of all the features and new stuff. It's difficult at first to take it all in. Does't help that the demo is very open-ended which makes it even more overwhelming. I'm not sure if you can do something about this issue really, but it's not too bad. After a while I got used to things. So what I'm saying is, this quest seems to be hard to get into, but if you do it's an extremely fun experience.

 

- How do I pick up bomb flowers while using the L and R scrolling option? What else can you pick up besides bomb flowers? I like to use L and R item switching.

 

- Is there a benefit to either 1x2 or 1x1 sideview characters?

 

- Since you can change the options on a saved game, if I select error mode could that potentially get me permastuck somehow if I save then? I'm scared to even use it, in fear of a script saving my game or something :P

 

- I don't like the bow sprite for zelda. It would be better if it's an invisible sprite in my opinion. I just find it awkward.

 

- The music selection easily makes you spend 10 minutes listening all these songs before deciding to just randomize. lol

 

- What if I select cancel on the level up menu?

 

- What does the heart level up do? Will it make me take less damage?

 

- What happens if I leave one character somewhere and then forget where he or she is?

 

- Isn't the magic powder overpowered? It lets me oneshot every enemy I think.

 

- I like how some items are different for Link and Zelda.

 

- Boss keys have no pick-up animation and no pickup string. After beating my first miniboss I didn't even notice I got a boss key. It's an important item so at least a pick-up animation would be fair.

 

- It seems I have to open this door to progress in this dungeon, but I can't.

dWOLciS.png

 

- I had one left-over key after beating YAMAUCHI. That's probably intended, I just wanted to point it out.

 

- This panel here shows me a wrong song? One note is different.

gfujIJ6.png

 

- Why don't you change the name of sun's song to moon's song when switching characters?

 

- The hitbox of the fairy seems off. I think the fairy shouldnt be in the center of the tile but rather in the top-left. (For the curse removal feature at least. It works correctly for weapon blocking)

 

- I can find magic-upgrades even though I can level it up with exp?

 

- What do I need here? I'm just curious. The diagonal ball doesn't seem to work. Why are there heart containers and heart pieces?

6eqE13l.png

 

- Can't find the red candle in YOKOI, which I assume I need. Found a bunch of keys and another dungeon item though.


Edited by Avataro, 13 October 2016 - 11:37 AM.


#11 Mitsukara

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 12:50 PM

My favorite demo so far. It had a few quirks that I felt I needed to complain about. I even had to F6 once because I got trapped in a room. When the full LP is out you'll get to see more.

Cool! I look forward to it. Thank you for playing : )

Sorry about getting stuck. I've removed that shutter door in Tezuka so that you could escape in the eventuality someone went there with an unarmed Link.
 

 

Still though, you should create a banner for this quest as I'll want to add it to my signature for most anticipated quests.

Oh wow! Well, I tried making one, but I'm not sure it's very good. I've never done one of these before, but here goes...

0cx9nak.png

Here's a link to the project page to go with it.

If you have any suggestions on altering or improving it, or if anyone else wanted to make a different one, I'd definitely be open to alternate suggestions.

 

Regarding shortening the name... the longer title exceeded the project page's allowed title length, so it actually is listed as Link and Zelda: Panoply of Calatia. I wanted to get "The Adventure of" in there because of all the Zelda II stuff in the second half of the quest, but it is a bit unwieldy that way. Either form of reference is okay, but I'd like to leave "The Adventure of" text on the title screen.
 

 

This quest is great! It's definetly 5-star worthy for me so far. I'm really looking forward to the finished quest. I hope you'll be able to complete it Mitsukara :)

Thank you! Thorough feedback gives me a lot to think about. (And it's an honor to receive such high praise from Avatar Aang XD ) I'll try to address everything... however, because I've noticed quote tags malfunction if I use too many in a single post, I may double-post to finish answering stuff (I hope that's okay).

As far as progress.. my current beta might actually be fully completeable (even the ending sequence), but I have a lot of bugtesting and fixes and polish yet to do. I want it to gel a little better, and try to make sure people can't get stuck.

This is the closest I've ever come to finishing a quest and it's my first scripted quest, so there's a bit of a "proof of concept" thing going on for me personally. I hope to take what I've learned, and make a sequel project that's better. That is to say, I'm going to bugfix and polish this quest, but I may shy away from particularly large re-vamps, basically.
 

 

What was the hardest thing to script? I imagine that's gonna be hard to answer.

Keeping track of organizing the whole set of scripts and how they may interact/intefere is probably the hardest thing (like that conflict you mentioned with the flute/sign), but that's kind of a bogus answer probably, so... hmm. I think the movements of the partner follower are actually the most complicated part, for how they keep up, face the right directions, appear in the right places, disappear at the right times, aim to auto-fire, adjust for tallness, and that kinda stuff. But the Flute item was pretty hard to set up too.
 

 

- I used the flute in front of a tablet that tought me a song. When I used the note "A" my game froze, but I was able to F6 and continue.

That's no good! That sounds like a control conflict (between the tablet reacting to A, and the flute) I didn't think of. I'll check it out, thank you.
 

 

- The subscreen sure is messy, but that's because there's so many things you are showing. The placement of the weather indicator seems weird, being right above my coin counter. It actually seems pointless too, besides being able to tell the weather whithout being outside. Wait... Why do I have coins AND rupees? Are coins limited? What are they for?

The coins give you a life doll when you reach 100, unless you're already full on life dolls. They're pretty much coins straight from Super Mario Bros, meant as a means of making replenishing live dolls a little easier/more common (instead of only getting them from the store, or from maxing out your level-ups a la Zelda II).
 

 

- The Ex 3 button to toggle autofire is not entirely useless, but I don't know if it was a good idea to have an extra button just for that. The controls are really overwhelming because there are so many buttons.

I figured auto fire would be something the player might want to have on pretty often, but that could also get in the way if it was always on, so I figured it should be available at all times.

I didn't think using all the ex buttons was so frowned upon (since it's comparable to the number of buttons on the N64 and Gamecube controllers), but I've heard this from a second person too. However, the only alternatives that I can think of would be:
- Removing the auto fire toggleability (which sucks)
- Removing auto fire entirely from the game (even worse)
- Making the Ex function another thing on the B button list, possibly needing to expand that whole space even more... bleh
- Trying to cram multiple different partner functions onto one button (discerning which thing based on something like how long the button is held, or the context of when it's pressed somehow, or having to press it and A at the same time, etc), which would make the use of that button confusing to the player, harder to script, and make the player more likely to misuse it...

So I didn't do any of that stuff.

There's one other solution...

- Make more of the buttons customizable, so that you can set items and character functions to different buttons,

...but that's even harder to script and would be very likely to cause problems that mess up various parts of the game (when I'm already mostly done- I already built all the dungeons and overworld areas before this demo was posted, I just need to bugfix and polish and retest everything). And it would also work much better by scripting an entirely new subscreen, which would be too big of a revamp.

However, I want to do precisely that for my next project: script a new subscreen (based on OoT's multi-part subscreen) and make the controls heavily customizable. We'll see how that turns out in the future, but right now, it just seems like too big of a revamp to do it that way, and I want to make sure this quest gets done at all, you know? : (
 

 

-The entire quest is overwhelming because of all the features and new stuff. It's difficult at first to take it all in. Does't help that the demo is very open-ended which makes it even more overwhelming. I'm not sure if you can do something about this issue really, but it's not too bad. After a while I got used to things. So what I'm saying is, this quest seems to be hard to get into, but if you do it's an extremely fun experience.

Yeah, I'm certain it's not for everybody; there's a lot of different game design philosophies, and there's tradeoffs to each. I decided to embrace having a ton of (valid) options everywhere, so the player could run off in one of many, many different directions and actually have that work out, usually.

For instance, several item puzzles can be solved with multiple different items; there's a key across a pit, you could maybe get there with the ladder and jumping, or you could use the beetle to pick up the key.

Right from the start, you can go and find several different items in the overworld. As soon as you have Zelda's arrows, there are four different dungeons that you can go straight to and complete, using only those arrows and what you find inside.

Some items aren't needed at all, technically, but provide useful benefits, like the Life/Ring Spells. I (think- one of the things I've got to bugtest) the sword is completely skippable right up until the final boss (and there's a room where a sword will appear if you don't have one, at that moment).

And soforth. Basically, I was trying to be as full of options and nonlinearity as possible, while keeping almost everything you could go and try to do doable- I deliberately excluded having any level number order for precisely that reason.

I was also very inspired by the Castlevania games "Portrait of Ruin" and "Symphony of the Night", and those games basically gave the player hundreds of crazy powerful weapons and abilities without much worry for being overpowered, so... yeah, one of those different design philosophy tradeoffs.

On the flip side, I also wanted to have somwhat complex puzzles which still require a lot of experimentation, mostly involving your items (but involving the whole manner in which the items can be used- like what abilities they give you, instead of the "what do I hit this switch with" kinda things). I tried to give some sort of hint, and in some cases outright explanations via the tiles with Impa's messages, but some of it may still be a bit cryptic, sorry.

I hope people enjoy it. : )
 

 

How do I pick up bomb flowers while using the L and R scrolling option?

You lift things by equipping the the power bracelet to the B button. If I scripted it right, the L Button lifting control scheme also depends on having the power bracelet in your inventory. All the control scheme switch does is make L act like pressing B with the bracelet (if you have one), and R act like pressing B with the shield (if you have one).
 

 

What else can you pick up besides bomb flowers?

Circular rocks, mostly, but there's a few of your own items you can toss to try some really weird tricks...
 

 

- Is there a benefit to either 1x2 or 1x1 sideview characters?

Nope, that's purely aesthetic. I wasn't giong to make it switchable, but one of my testers requested it because they liked the look of the small sprites better.
 

 

- Since you can change the options on a saved game, if I select error mode could that potentially get me permastuck somehow if I save then?

Yes, this is why Error Mode warns you to copy your file. But the only way to really mess up your file with error mode is to save the game (yourself) after turning it on. I'd like to just disable saving in error mode, but I don't know any way to do that with scripting.

What the mode does is basically randomize a bunch of elements of the game- like switching tiles and ground combos around, spawning objects that behave weirdly, goofing up which text NPCs will load, and soforth. I don't think it would do anything actually dangerous, though it definitely makes the game less playable because you can get randomly stuck or teleported into walls or all sorts of odd stuff that messes with the player.
 

 

- I don't like the bow sprite for zelda. It would be better if it's an invisible sprite in my opinion. I just find it awkward.

Hmm. Can you think of a way the bow sprite might look better instead, like, a different way it could be drawn or move maybe? I was sort of going for LTTP's look where you see Link pull out the bow and fire the arrow from it, but it's a bit cruder in mine.
 

 

- The music selection easily makes you spend 10 minutes listening all these songs before deciding to just randomize. lol

Yeah, it might be an overly large number of songs. But I also figured people were likely to recognize a game or two they liked, and think "oh, does it have ___ from that game?", and then I don't want people to be disappointed. Like if somebody really wanted Xemn's Music from Legacy of the Wizard, etc.

To be continued...


Edited by Mitsukara, 13 October 2016 - 01:13 PM.

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#12 Mitsukara

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 01:08 PM

- What if I select cancel on the level up menu?

Then it uses up the XP and doesn't level anything up, so that you can opt out if desired.
 

 

- What does the heart level up do? Will it make me take less damage?

- I can find magic-upgrades even though I can level it up with exp?

The level up system works like Zelda II, where the Magic levels lower the cost of the spells themselves, whereas only finding the containers extends the meter. This basically goes for Magic and Life, both.

Life levels gradually reduce your damage, with level 8 (the maximum for each level) being equivalent to the Red Ring. This stacks with the "Ring" spell (or Guardian Acorns, which are basically the ring spell in item drop form), which will double whatever your defense already was- so Level 8 Life + Ring Spell = Gold Ring defense.
 

 

- What happens if I leave one character somewhere and then forget where he or she is?

They'll stay wherever you left them until you F6, game over, or use the Wind song on the flute.
 

 

- Isn't the magic powder overpowered? It lets me oneshot every enemy I think.

There's some enemies it doesn't work on, but I've noticed many people don't think to use magic powder at all, so I erred on the side of making it fairly useful.
 

 

- I like how some items are different for Link and Zelda.

Thanks : ) I wanted to make each item different, but couldn't think of ways for that to make sense... so those little gray boxes on the subscreen show which items change by character.
 

 

- Boss keys have no pick-up animation and no pickup string. After beating my first miniboss I didn't even notice I got a boss key. It's an important item so at least a pick-up animation would be fair.

Hmm, maybe. My previous thinking was that it might get a little redundant to have to hold it up each time, but that could make sense.
 

 

- I had one left-over key after beating YAMAUCHI. That's probably intended, I just wanted to point it out.

It's not a requirement, but it's possible (part of what I mean about multiple possible solutions- there are skippable key doors). You basically just have a spare now, much as if you'd bought a spare at the shop. I wanted to make absolutely certain the key usage was flexible, so that softlocking was impossible.
 

 

- This panel here shows me a wrong song? One note is different.

- Why don't you change the name of sun's song to moon's song when switching characters?

Oops! Thanks for catching that note glitch.
 

It hadn't occured to me to change song names. Hmm.. that might be a good idea for all four character-dependant songs. I'll think about it.
 

 

- The hitbox of the fairy seems off. I think the fairy shouldnt be in the center of the tile but rather in the top-left. (For the curse removal feature at least. It works correctly for weapon blocking)

Hmm. What if I just made the hitbox a little larger for the curse removal, so that both positions were valid? I think I could do that pretty easily.
 

 

What do I need here? I'm just curious. The diagonal ball doesn't seem to work. Why are there heart containers and heart pieces?

You need items from all four dungeons:

Spoiler


Regarding heart pieces and containers... I wanted to have more secrets scattered throughout the game, but wanted the player to be able to find some full heart containers too. And like Zelda II, the containers are all outside dungeons.
 

 

- It seems I have to open this door to progress in this dungeon, but I can't.

- Can't find the red candle in YOKOI, which I assume I need. Found a bunch of keys and another dungeon item though.

in Tezuka, that's a one way door. What you actually do is...

Spoiler

 

Sounds like you're mostly done with the first section of Yokoi Palace. To get the red candle, you...

Spoiler



#13 Avaro

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 02:45 PM

Thanks for the replies!

 

About the auto fire toggle and buttons, it really sounds like it would be best to leave it how it is now. I think that's fine.

 

 

You lift things by equipping the the power bracelet to the B button. If I scripted it right, the L Button lifting control scheme also depends on having the power bracelet in your inventory. All the control scheme switch does is make L act like pressing B with the bracelet (if you have one), and R act like pressing B with the shield (if you have one).

 

Oops, I didn't find a bracelet. That explains it. I watched some parts of Lunaria's stream and saw them picking up bomb flowers.

 

 

Hmm. Can you think of a way the bow sprite might look better instead, like, a different way it could be drawn or move maybe? I was sort of going for LTTP's look where you see Link pull out the bow and fire the arrow from it, but it's a bit cruder in mine.

 

Well yeah, maybe a bit closer to Zelda.

 

 

in Tezuka, that's a one way door. What you actually do is...

 

I saw the coins and thought to myself "I gotta bomb that wall", but then I somehow forgot after.. xD


Edited by Avataro, 13 October 2016 - 02:45 PM.


#14 NewJourneysFire

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 05:10 AM

My Lets Play of this Expo Demo has been uploaded to my Expo LP Forum Topic. It's been shared here for review, discussion, and for the interests of anybody who is curious on what this game is all about. 



#15 Eddy

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 06:41 AM

This was a fantastic demo. After beta testing the quest a while back, I gotta say that there are some really great improvements you've made. First thing I noticed is that the new music feature in dungeons is fantastic, and I don't think I've ever seen that done before, so great job on that. Secondly, the demo plays really well with no major problems with tedious jumping or anything like that (which was one of the complaints I originally had). But yeah, this is probably the closest to an NES game you can get on ZC :P As far as improvements, I especially love the fact that you can check songs you've learnt so that you don't have to keep noting down songs, and the amount of scripting that went into this is really amazing too.

 

There are some very minor things I found however, such as either Link or Zelda going underneath pushable blocks when they're following you and some of the perspective in dungeons can be a bit weird to look at (which can get quite confusing, especially with the white palette dungeon that I happened to forget the name of lol). The weather effects can be a little weird at first (I think I mentioned this before elsewhere), but after a while they settle in nicely and you get a really cool day/night cycle which I haven't seen done well before until now.

 

Overall though, this is definitely an easy 5/5 from me. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product, and I'll be sure to pick up beta testing this again at some point in the future!




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