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[Tips&Tricks/2.50] Water Walking and Why it Matters


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#1 strike

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 05:34 PM

Purpose

 

"Water walking" is a technique/exploit I've been using for a while playing other people's quests. I've mentioned it once or twice on the boards with little reaction. For some reason I just assumed other people knew about it, but recently I've seen locations to do the exploit in really good designer's quests and realized- I don't think anyone knows about this. And this exploit is important because it can be found in a lot of quests. I'm making this topic for two reasons: so your quest can be immune from this exploit and so you can use it when you want in other people's quests. I think making a topic like this is necessary so that quests avoid this exploit more.

 

What is Water Walking?

 

Hopefully I can add a video eventually as it makes more sense seeing it then reading about it.

 

Water walking can occur when you have drownable water lining the edges of two adjacent screens. Drowning over and over, you can move along the water and edge of the screens, into areas you are not suppose to go. Let's go over some mechanics to explain how this works.

 

-When you drown, you go back to the location you entered the screen.

-When you drown, you cannot immediately drown again when you respawn.

-When you drown and respawn over water, you can walk a little on the water before you drown.

 

All these mechanics work together like this:

 

Say you exit a screen from the east and come across a beach. Much like the original Legend of Zelda, the beach reaches up to the north, with water blocking off your way progressing east. The beach stretches several screens. This is the perfect place to water walk and this situation occurs in many, many quests.

 

Exit to the north, going along the water. Then get as close to the water as you can without drowning and then exit to the screen below, to the south. Drown yourself in the water. Then, when you briefly cannot drown again, move east into the water and then move up onto the screen to your north. You should immediately drown on that screen (and you should be standing a little bit over the water). When you drown, move further east over the water and then move down to the south again. You should immediately drown on that screen, but you should be further out over the water. Repeat this until you have exited the screen to the east, drowning over and over, walking over the water.

 

Keep in mind this works in any direction: north, south, east, or west. So anytime you have water along the edges of two adjacent screens, this is probably possible.

 

More Details about the Exploit

 

Some water walks are more efficient than others. If you simply hold diagonally while you drown, buffering the movement, you will instantly exit the screen. This is the least efficient water walk because you gain barely any distance before you drown again. It is much more efficient to hold the direction you want to move, straight on. You should do this for only a fraction of a second, however, before you shift the input diagonally to exit the screen and drown again. This actually makes a significant difference. The longer you can hold straight without drowning, the more efficient the walk is. If you drowned, you held straight too long and a fourth of a heart was wasted.

 

The distance you can cover is determined by your health and ability to regain health. It can take as much as a heart and a half to cross one tile (if you are doing it very inefficiently). Or a tile can be crossed in about 3/4ths of a heart. I suggest using potions if you want to cross a substantial distance; a red potion triples the distance you can cross. Also, if you have a regenerative heart ring, you can go on forever. Simply wait or uncap the frame rate when you are low on hearts.

 

Here's a way to make sure the start of your water walk is optimal. You want to exit screen as close to the water as possible, so you get the most distance on your first drown. To do this, move between the screens on land, buffering diagonal movement in between the the screen transitions. Inch your way to the water. When you drown, your last screen exit was as close as possible to the water- which is optimal.

 

You don't have to act as soon as you get out of the drown animation. It might seem that you have to move while you are flickering from being invincible. You don't. If you just stand still, you will be fine and rest on top of the water. You don't lose any distance this way either: act whenever you are ready.

 

WHY THIS PROBABLY MATTERS FOR YOUR QUEST

 

If your quest uses drownable water and ever has water along the edges of two consecutive screens, water walking can be used in your quest. And there is a pretty decent chance in at least one location it can be used to sequence break or get out of bounds. I'm telling you, this is in a lot of quests. It's just a common thing to use water as a barrier between screens.

 

How to avoid this in your quests:

 

-Use solid water.

-Never have drownable water along the edge of two consecutive screens.

-Place solid objects in the water on screen borders.

-Have water become solid one tile into water. Or at least on the edges of screens.

-Be mindful anytime you use water.

 

Conclusion

 

This is a decently powerful exploit that is in a lot of games. Look out for it while playing other people's quests and your own. I think you'll be surprised when you start looking- you can do this in so many quests, even ones that are generally bug proof. Thanks for your time and hopefully this helps you playing and making quests.


Edited by strike, 21 May 2017 - 05:45 PM.

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#2 Shoshon the Elegant

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 05:43 PM

I will try to keep this in my mind. I'm not terribly worried about sequence breaking. Since my water tends to be confined to a non linear area. But even though it is non linear in that you can enter any area at any time. The areas themselves ask for a certain amount of progression.

#3 justin

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 06:13 PM

I have a script for preventing this exploit when jumping across screens into drownable water. The script could be somewhat easily modified to prevent water walking.

http://www.purezc.ne...=scripts&id=156
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#4 Avaro

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 06:17 PM

Interesting :P Thanks for bringing this to everyones attention and the detailed guide. I actually remember doing this once myself but then forgot after.


Edited by Avataro, 21 May 2017 - 06:18 PM.


#5 Naru

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:18 AM

I rather remember a few times where I accidentally did exit a screen and got stuck on water without a chance to move. Though that might have been rather bad screen design plus solid water. Otherwise the worst I did was a minimum of water walking over three combos at most to use the feather.

As an exploit it doesn't really bother me. As you say, it is an exploit and anyone that does use it should know that the quest isn't supposed to be played like that. As such I can't see it as a flaw in quest-design. I actually don't dislike such things, you don't do them accidentally, so normal game-play isn't influenced. And if you do it on purpose to see what happens it is rather a fun-factor for the player.

#6 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:29 AM

We should probably find a way to fix this.

If I read that properly, if two adjacent screens have walkable water, you can do it?

Let's position screens like this, left screen, and right screen, with [l] representing a land tile, and [w] representing a water tile

Is it possible to accomplish this exploit?

[l][w][w] | [w][w][w]
[l][w][w] | [w][w][l]
[l][w][w] | [w][w][l]
[l][w][w] | [w][w][w]

 

I would like to see some videos that show what types of screens allow this, and what screen layouts forbid it; and I will try to remember to investigate this and see if there is a way to remedy it in the source.

 

I would naturally expect it to occur on screens like this:

 

[l][w][w] | [l][l][l]
[l][w][w] | [l][l][l]
[l][w][w] | [l][l][l]
[l][w][w] | [l][l][l]

 

...as Link is not in water during the transition.

 

Can it occur if there is walkable water on both sides of a transition without jumping)?

 

We may need to adjust the respawn behaviour for drowning, and that will of course need to be a quest flag of some kind.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 22 May 2017 - 06:36 AM.


#7 strike

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:51 AM

I would also like to make a video but I don't think I currently can. I'll look into it though.

 

No, it does not work for either of the situations you described.

 

Here are some screen combinations where it would work.

 

[w][w][w] | [w][w][w]
[l][l][l] | [l][l][l]
[l][l][l] | [l][l][l]
[l][l][l] | [l][l][l]

 

You could very easily move to the screens to the north.

 

[l][l][l] | [l][l][l]
[l][l][l] | [l][l][l]
[l][l][l] | [l][l][l]
[w][w][w] | [w][w][w]

 

Move to the screens to the south.

 

[l][l][w]
[l][l][w]
[l][l][w]
[l][l][w]

 -  -  -

[l][l][w]
[l][l][w]
[l][l][w]
[l][l][w]

 

 

Move to the screens to the east.

 

It probably would be good to fix it. But of course leaving backwards compatibility, like you said.

 

-Strike


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#8 Anthus

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 11:11 PM

I have done this too, and I also kind of assumed it was common knowledge :P. I made a video that shows off how this can be done. It is actually surprisingly easy. Once Link drowns, I literally just hold right, and alternate holding Up/ Down each time Link drowns again. You only move a pixel or two at a time, but I can see this breaking some sequences in some quests. I lost my rhythm near the west/ east transition cause I pulled out my phone, and was trying to record my hand, but failed.

 

But, running out of HP from drowning so much is a much bigger issue.

 

Best if watched at 2x speed


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#9 strike

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 06:37 AM

Thank you so much for the video Anthus. Really that helps so much.

 

Do know though that that is the literally most inefficient method for doing this ^ _ ^ Like I said in the initial post, you can do it that way but it is way slower and takes way more hearts to cover a distance. It is harder but much more efficient to not hold diagonally. Like for perspective, you probably could have gotten across that first screen with 6 hearts. Maybe 7.

 

But really : P Thank you so much for making a video. I really appreciate it.

 

-Strike


Edited by strike, 05 June 2017 - 06:39 AM.

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#10 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 03:25 AM

With some consideration, I feel that an approach toward fixing this would be to add three Link variables or an array an a var: int screen_entry[5] (x,y, lastscreen, lastx, lasty), and int lastsction.

 

When link changes screens, or warps, store his entry points.

If Link's lastaction was drowning, and he is drowning again on the next frame, respawn him at his screen entry points.

 

If his entry point is on water, try lastscreen,x,y. It might be prudent to track his last position on land, instead. That is how Z3 handled it. Drowning Link should never re-spawn over water, and that is the root of this bug.

 

You could also do this by script.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 07 June 2017 - 03:31 AM.

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#11 strike

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:04 AM

What if you warp to a screen that is just water, where Link would normally drown over and over? How would this fix affect that situation? Also you don't necessarily have to drown the next frame. You can just stand still over the water and never drown.

 

-Strike



#12 ZoriaRPG

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 05:53 AM

What if you warp to a screen that is just water, where Link would normally drown over and over? How would this fix affect that situation? Also you don't necessarily have to drown the next frame. You can just stand still over the water and never drown.

 

-Strike

 

In that event, Link would drown over and over, but would not be able to move. The entire point is to fix his coordinates on screen entry, so that if he drowns, he respawns either where he entered the screen, or at his last land coordinates, rather than over a water tile. If the user warps Link to a water screen, that is a user-bug in the quest file, as that warp should not exist; unless you can provide a case for needing to be able to warp Link to a water screen if he cannot swim. :shrug:

 

The bug is caused by the frames of invincibility, which we can retain, but fix his position. I feel that respawning him in hi s last land coordinates would be better, save that this would mean forcing the scrolling back, if Link scrolled into a water combo. I suppose we could do that. If naught else, adding Screen->EntryX, and Screen->EntryY would allow scripted repositioning, and these entry points would be what internal pit flags / combo types would use to respawn Link if he enters a pit, or lava, or water combo.

 

Obviously, this would be a new behaviour, subject to some kind of environmental rule.


Edited by ZoriaRPG, 30 June 2017 - 05:54 AM.


#13 Cukeman

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 07:23 AM

Can you lava walk too?



#14 Anthus

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:54 AM

Can you lava walk too?


I suppose if the lava is a water combo, yeah.

#15 Cukeman

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:35 AM

I was thinking lava was a default combo, but now that I think about it, I remember that the lava I'm talking about is Joe123's script:

 

http://www.purezc.ne...topic=42423&hl=




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