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Why can't link use bombs? And more...


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#1 BillTheRuler

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 09:53 PM

I gave link bombs but for some reason, he can't use them, why?

Also, how to I make it that after a secret tile is revealed the jingle plays.

Thanks!



#2 Architect Abdiel

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:01 PM

For bombs, Link also needs the Bomb item to use them.

#3 Lüt

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:06 PM

So there's 2 ways to do bombs.

 

The first is using the standard bomb item, "Bomb (Normal)" - Item #3 if you're using the default classic tileset, as well as most others. That gives you 4 bombs, up to a starting maximum of 8 (unless you change it under "Quest" -> "Init Data"). Along the way, you can place bomb upgrades by going to "Screen" -> "Room Type" and selecting "More Bombs," then "Screen" -> "Price" and entering the amount of rupees for the upgrade. These upgrades are typically put in caves or dungeon rooms, since it's a guy who offers to sell you the upgrade, and he should have the full room to himself. Each upgrade gives you an additional 4 bombs and 2 super bombs.

 

The second is using bomb ammunition. These types of bombs require a bomb bag to carry, and you won't be able to pick up bomb ammunition until you have a bomb bag. You can also place Bomb (Normal) and it will activate your ability to carry bombs and pick up bomb ammo, but generally these two types of bomb methods are not mixed and matched. It's meant that you choose one or the other, and using this way, you can offer up to 4 different bomb bags of gradually larger capacity, rather than using the bomb upgrade rooms. You can use those rooms, but again, it's an inconsistent crossover and rarely done.

 

As for secret jingles, I'm honestly not sure. I've had the sound play when I didn't want it to, but it's never failed to play when I needed it to. How are you setting up your secrets? And actually, just for reference, what tileset are you working with?


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#4 Naru

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:09 AM

I think it is the same Lüt said, but what confused me at first was that some tilesets use the smallest bomb-bag (the #3 Lüt mentioned I believe) as ammunition. It is set up with a bomb-sprite and it increases the amount of bombs you can carry by 8 to a maximum of 8 and gives you 4 bombs. After you can already carry 8 bombs it will give you only the 4 bombs, working exactly like ammunition. Only that the actual ammunition won't enable you to carry bombs.

Regarding secrets, only things that are called so create the jingle. Opening a chest for example does not. You need to beat up all enemies with the screen-data set up or you need to activate a trigger-combo. The step-triggers don't play the jingle if I remember it correctly though.

#5 BillTheRuler

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 12:19 AM

Right, I placed down bomb ammunition instead of the bomb item.


Also, Lut, I'm using the original tileset.


Also, one more thing.

How to I make it that secret tiles stay revealed even after you leave the screen?



#6 Architect Abdiel

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 03:55 AM

Yeah. That would be an issue. You can place down ammunition, but you would have to have the Bomb item in Link's inventory.

Think of the Bomb item like a Bow.

I believe there's a permanent secrets thing under screen data. If you're having multiple secrets triggered on after another though, only the first will be permanent. There is a script for that though.

#7 BillTheRuler

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:10 AM

Yeah. That would be an issue. You can place down ammunition, but you would have to have the Bomb item in Link's inventory.

Think of the Bomb item like a Bow.

I believe there's a permanent secrets thing under screen data. If you're having multiple secrets triggered on after another though, only the first will be permanent. There is a script for that though.

I turned on the Perm secret flag but it still goes away when I leave and come back!

:-/



#8 BillTheRuler

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:41 AM

More issues! As soon as link enters a dungeon, he faces down and walks out again  :confused:



#9 Rainst0rm4759

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:45 AM

It depends on the type of secret. For example, Block Puzzle secrets can't be permanent, as far as I know, but you can work around this by having the puzzle trigger an 'invisible' (same tile as the floor) Combo with the "Step->Secrets (Sens. Perm)" Combo Type that the player will be forced to step over (perhaps in front of a chest or by the exit). You could also have a "Step->Secrets (Permanent)" on the other side of a barrier (if your puzzle removes it) so that players can escape from the other side.

 

Keep in mind most of this is moot if you are using NES Dungeon Screens because I don't think they can have Permanent Secrets. I recommend just using the 'Interior' screen type for Dungeons. The difference biggest difference between NES Dungeon Screens and Interior screens is that you can't use 'Block->Shutters' or Locked Doors on interior screens. For shutters, you have to instead place the shutter doors as combos and then use the 'Enemies->Secrets' Screen Flag to open them. For locked doors, you place the doors as combos and make them Lock Blocks using Combo Types. Using 'Interior' Screens may also fix the issue with Link leaving the dungeon.



#10 BillTheRuler

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:20 AM

After the tile warp link walks downwards into the door again instead of away from it.

:-/



#11 Jamian

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:03 AM

I recommend you use the Interior dungeon type to have permanent secrets. You can still check a screen flag to treat certain screens as NES screens when you want to use automated doors. If, however, you want screens that combine permanent secrets and NES-like doors, you'll have to use ZQuest tricks like Rainst0rm mentioned.



#12 Deedee

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:21 AM

After the tile warp link walks downwards into the door again instead of away from it.

:-/

Put the return point at the edge of the screen.



#13 BillTheRuler

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:35 AM

I fixed it so he doesn't walk back out, but he does face downwards, but that's not really an issue,


Edited by BillTheRuler, 03 July 2017 - 06:40 AM.


#14 Lüt

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:41 AM

Also, Lut, I'm using the original tileset.

Hooo boy, your dungeon combos are going to be a complete mess.

In the event that you want to arrange them into something sensible, you can open the combo page, select an individual combo or a group of combos, hit ctrl+c to copy, then ctrl+m to "move." This is an option that isn't listed on the right-click menu, and unlike the "swap" option, this will also update the combos used in your current rooms, as well any aliases and door combo sets (the ones when you press F6) that you have configured - "swap" will simply change the combo positions in the combo list, but not update your rooms, aliases or door combo sets, resulting in an epic visual mess.

But be aware that this requires you to paste your combos to a blank section of the combo list - if you "move" them on top of existing combos, they'll overwrite them, rather than bump them back in the list.

If you're not doing freeform dungeons, and simply copy+pasting the square template supplied in the bottom row of screens, you probably won't need to bother with this.

Also, just as a point of reference, if you're looking at a room and see a combo you want to use but can't find it in the list, you can right-click it, choose "select combo," then "scroll to combo" to see it highlighted in the combo list. I used it to organize combo lists earlier on.

Think of the Bomb item like a Bow.

Speaking of which, if you want your arrows to function in the same way that the bomb ammunition method works rather than using rupees, go to "Quest" -> "Rules" -> "Items" and check the box for "True Arrows." Then you'll activate arrow ammunition and quivers that function exactly like bomb ammunition and bomb bags. But if you're aiming for a true classic-styled quest, leave this disabled.

I believe there's a permanent secrets thing under screen data. If you're having multiple secrets triggered one after another though, only the first will be permanent.

The only built-in option that works with NES dungeon screens is under the "E.Flags" tab of the screen data - if you check the boxes for "Enemies -> Secrets" and "Enemies -> Secrets Is Permanent," any secret flags will be activated once you kill all enemies, and they will remain activated - however, you'll hear the secret jingle every time you enter the screen because ZC reloads them every time you enter the screen rather than saving them like overworld/interior map types do.

More issues! As soon as link enters a dungeon, he faces down and walks out again  :confused:
//
I fixed it so he doesn't walk back out, but he does face downwards, but that's not really an issue,

The warp return actually needs to be placed halfway into the gray bar at the bottom of the screen:
Spoiler
That will keep Link from getting pushed back out or facing the wrong direction.

The gray bar only represents the missing 8 pixels across the bottom of the in-game screen display - it's not an invalid/unused part of the screen itself.

It depends on the type of secret. For example, Block Puzzle secrets can't be permanent, as far as I know, but you can work around this by having the puzzle trigger an 'invisible' (same tile as the floor) Combo with the "Step->Secrets (Sens. Perm)" Combo Type that the player will be forced to step over (perhaps in front of a chest or by the exit).

MoscowModder created a "Permanent Block Secrets" script that not only works with blocks, but with whistle secrets and any other secrets that don't remain activated even on the overworld.

But as noted in the description, it doesn't work with NES dungeon screens.

There is, however, an option that does remain permanent on NES dungeon screens - "Linked Secrets" is a script that I actually requested and made a demo quest for. This uses a different flagging system to change combos in a room, thus they don't officially register to ZC as secrets, and as such, don't get reset. I will admit, even though I was the one to suggest the functionality, it can still be a little confusing to set up. The best bet is to check the demo, and if you see something you want, copy the settings over to your quest. If this is your preferred method and you can't get it to work, I can help you set it up.

And yes, you can choose whatever sound you want for your secret sound.

You can still check a screen flag to treat certain screens as NES screens when you want to use automated doors.

Exactly. The catch with this though, is that both screens on each side of the automated walls will need to be NES dungeon screens for the functionality to transfer to both sides.

Now, you can probably leave the doorway open on the other side of a locked door if there's no way to access the room from that side, but if you want bombable walls, then both sides definitely have to be NES dungeon screens.

Moreover, if you want shutters to close behind Link, then they have to be NES dungeon screens as well. If you want shutters to close behind Link and you don't use an NES dungeon screen, he'll simply get stuck on the other side of them and you'll have to exit the room that way.

One final note regarding DMap/Screen types: another person had a similar question regarding what type had what functions, and got some thorough responses, so if you want to read that discussion, check this thread. General suggestion: if you're only going to be using standard NES square rooms with the occasional permanent secret, use the NES dungeon DMap type and enable "Treat as Interior Screen" under screen data for rooms requiring permanent secrets (or use the Linked Secrets script).


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