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Wizzrobe Trials Demo 1


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#1 SaijeNode

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 11:24 PM

First Demo is uploaded. Hope some of you try it and give me some feed back on what you think.

to easy? to hard? Suggestions for improvement in my level design and all that. ^_^
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#2 Timelord

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 10:07 AM

[...1,000 wizzrobes and call it done]


Oi, look, it's turned on its head. :)

This looks like an interesting plot Saije.
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#3 judasrising

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 11:40 AM

Hi

 

I like the idea with the wizzrobe things and i mention also that enemies is way to strong, 

and one more thing 

pickupcant.png

i cant pickup the sword here.


Edited by judasrising, 22 March 2018 - 11:41 AM.


#4 SaijeNode

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 03:06 PM

Hi

 

I like the idea with the wizzrobe things and i mention also that enemies is way to strong, 

and one more thing 

pickupcant.png

i cant pickup the sword here.


Ah yess. i mistakenly had a solid Tile there. I have gone through and fixed a few things, reduced enemy difficultly since its supposed to be level 1, and some other fine touches.

In the mean time check out this Bonus boss,  I used Moosh's newbie boss script and a sprite i got from someone, but I think its pretty cool :P


Oi, look, it's turned on its head. :)

This looks like an interesting plot Saije.

Thanks, im having fun making my first little quest.

ohh and it would be semi possible with the monster generator i guess xD haha but yeah
 


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#5 judasrising

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 03:45 PM

Ah yess. i mistakenly had a solid Tile there. I have gone through and fixed a few things, reduced enemy difficultly since its supposed to be level 1, and some other fine touches.
In the mean time check out this Bonus boss,  I used Moosh's newbie boss script and a sprite i got from someone, but I think its pretty cool :P


 


https://youtu.be/KUIBIJjU2Og



Thanks, im having fun making my first little quest.
ohh and it would be semi possible with the monster generator i guess xD haha but yeah


Ah nice vid of the boss it fits your quest very well
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#6 James24

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 09:48 PM

Just gave your demo a try.  Do you know about cave up and cave down combos?  The entrances to some of your caves seem a bit weird and these might help greatly.  See my LoH:IE and see how Link enters dungeons/caves.  There's also a big dragon statue at the start of the main dungeon that if you walk behind it should be set to layer 3 or 4.  And yes, I couldn't get the sword because it was on a solid combo.
 
As for difficulty, well I can speak from experience on this one.  An unpaid quest maker has no true control over their own quest's difficulty.  All unpaid quest makers will simply make what they see as a "masterpiece" difficulty.  If people complain then they'll simply put in a cheap buff or nerf to suit everyone else - and that's if they are being generous.
 
Unfortunately, cheap buffs or nerfs don't work and they feel very artificial and forced and are ultimately rejected by the target audience.  To truly buff or nerf a quest for a taste other than your own is one of the hardest, most time-consuming and challenging parts of quest making.  Further, why would an unpaid quest maker spend their precious time making another version when their version works perfectly and they can play and enjoy it as is?
 
I can also tell you from experience that the vast majority of players enjoy easy difficulty.  Best if you treat combat as something that's just for show and focus on puzzles and graphics because that's what they like.

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#7 SaijeNode

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 11:51 PM

I am not to sure about the cave up's and downs. though I think the cave down, is a walk down animation and the walk up, walks up.  I must be wrong though cause i have noticed some of the odd ways entering and exiting can be in my quest.

I will look into that. thanks for letting me know. and the Dragon, I didn't notice that, so I will fix that too.

The difficulty is a tricky thing for me, cause I like a challenge in all games. I build it to my tastes naturally, at least to the best of my skill as of yet in ZQuest. But I do want a balanced difficulty that gets more challenging as you go along.
As much as I love the possibility of people playing and enjoying a game/quest I made is awesome! but in the end I don't want it to be to easy.

 

 

Just gave your demo a try.  Do you know about cave up and cave down combos?  The entrances to some of your caves seem a bit weird and these might help greatly.  See my LoH:IE and see how Link enters dungeons/caves.  There's also a big dragon statue at the start of the main dungeon that if you walk behind it should be set to layer 3 or 4.  And yes, I couldn't get the sword because it was on a solid combo.
 
As for difficulty, well I can speak from experience on this one.  An unpaid quest maker has no true control over their own quest's difficulty.  All unpaid quest makers will simply make what they see as a "masterpiece" difficulty.  If people complain then they'll simply put in a cheap buff or nerf to suit everyone else - and that's if they are being generous.
 
Unfortunately, cheap buffs or nerfs don't work and they feel very artificial and forced and are ultimately rejected by the target audience.  To truly buff or nerf a quest for a taste other than your own is one of the hardest, most time-consuming and challenging parts of quest making.  Further, why would an unpaid quest maker spend their precious time making another version when their version works perfectly and they can play and enjoy it as is?
 
I can also tell you from experience that the vast majority of players enjoy easy difficulty.  Best if you treat combat as something that's just for show and focus on puzzles and graphics because that's what they like.

 



#8 James24

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 09:32 PM

If you like challenge in all games then its going to creep through into your quest making.  That's what you like, what you love and in the absence of a paycheck its what you'll do.  I can't possibly imagine the situation where anyone can persuade a challenge-lover to make a quest that's truly very easy (not a cheap nerf).
 
Just a heads-up though - most Zelda players reject challenge because the current Nintendo made Zelda games are not very challenging games.  They like Nintendo made Zelda and that's the reason why they come here in the first place.  So if you make a challenging quest then don't expect a big audience, lots of fans and friends and rave reviews.  There is a small niche audience for challenge but we are a tiny minority compared to them.
 
Once they start telling you that your quest is too hard you'll be left with 3 options.  1) Ignore 2) Cater for them spending lots of your precious time making a quest you don't really like or 3) Put in a cheap nerf - doesn't work, been tried many times.  Going to be a tough call.
 
By the way, if you like challenging games, did you finish my LoH and LoH:IE?  I would be interested in feedback from players who have similar tastes to my own.


#9 Shane

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 07:36 AM

Eh, James is overblowing the possibility of a negative outcome, I wouldn't worry about it and just do your thing. As long as your quest isn't unreasonably challenging (requiring mandatory damage, and relying on AI and luck, etc.) most people will be fine with it, especially if it's well designed maybe making it a highlight for the quest. Just look at Isle of Rebirth and a bunch of quests with NES Zelda difficulty for example. You seem to be wanting to create a balanced challenge, so I think it will accepted.  :)

 

I haven't played your demo, but from the videos and screens you've shown, it looks to be an interesting quest. Neat little premise too, good luck with experimenting and the quest overall! :D


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#10 James24

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 10:46 PM

Isle of Rebirth was rejected by some of the players who like easy difficulty - just see the comments and review section of the quest.  Isle of Rebirth was clearly a challenge quest that put in a bunch of cheap nerfs to accomodate different audience tastes.  This was found out and rejected.  And it also excluded players who played on these lower difficulties from certain areas of the quest which caused a big uproar.  But it did have puzzles and nice graphics which is why I think it was somewhat accepted.
 
As for NES Zelda difficulty, before this site was updated, I clearly remember that the original NES Zelda quests were rated 2 -3 stars by most.  Those ratings clearly indicate that modern Zelda players reject the old-school Zelda and by implication the challenge associated with it.
 
There has never been one challenge quest that has won a large concensus acceptance by the vast majority of players as far as I know and I've played many challenge and want-to-be challenge quests.
 
As for mandatory damage, I think its ok provided that the challenge as a whole is well-balanced - just think of it as starting the challenge with less health than you normally have instead of the boss doing more damage per hit.  As for relying on AI and luck, some players like to blame these kinds of things when they lose and not their own skill.  If you as the quest maker can beat something 3 times in a row without too much luck then it isn't luck based.

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#11 judasrising

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 02:57 AM

Hi

 

I noticed this in your latest updated demo

This pickup string seems to be wrong here...

 

pickstring.png



#12 SaijeNode

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 03:01 AM

I have been playing LoH:IE off and on, but I been quite immersed in zquest ever since i discovered it not long ago. I am wanting to play some more quests. there are a ton of great ones here. still cant believe zelda classic and zquest been around for so long and i never knew. haha.. i missed out on so much time i could of spent here.

oh no. haha. yeah thats not right xD I dont even remember testing picking that rupie up either. i will be doing a lot more extensive test runs before the next demo in a week or so. And i dont think that the small bomb bag should hold up to 30 bombs... that seems like a bit much haha.

Thank you for ltesting my demo and letting me know.

Hi

I noticed this in your latest updated demo
This pickup string seems to be wrong here...

pickstring.png


Edited by SaijeNode, 25 March 2018 - 03:29 AM.

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#13 judasrising

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 03:40 AM

Hi again

 

This idea i have is that it could be great to have a counter on the subscreen for the sword if it is get broken after 50 uses.

The idea is might little over the top...



#14 Gleeok

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 06:31 AM

I agree (in less and different words) with James24: Make the game how you want to make it. You'll be happier and more productive. Worry about marketing when it's near completion.

[...1,000 wizzrobes and call it done]

Oi, look, it's turned on its head. :)


LOL. (Inside joke: ZoriaRPG is quoting me there. The joke being that everyone sucks at fighting wizzrobes, so I'd finish his quest for him if he dies by adding 1000 wizzrobes to it. No one would even know it wasn't finished! :P )
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#15 Deedee

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 11:36 AM

 

Isle of Rebirth was rejected by some of the players who like easy difficulty - just see the comments and review section of the quest.  Isle of Rebirth was clearly a challenge quest that put in a bunch of cheap nerfs to accomodate different audience tastes.  This was found out and rejected.  And it also excluded players who played on these lower difficulties from certain areas of the quest which caused a big uproar.  But it did have puzzles and nice graphics which is why I think it was somewhat accepted.
(...)
There has never been one challenge quest that has won a large concensus acceptance by the vast majority of players as far as I know and I've played many challenge and want-to-be challenge quests.

Isle of Rebirth was, at one point, the highest rated quest in the database. People accepted it because it had good dungeon flow to go with the challenges, and it felt like an official Zelda game but harder.




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