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#1 Binx

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 04:41 AM

I'm wondering what people think are the most game-breaking items in vanilla ZC are. Obviously, things like the Master Sword, Gold Ring, and Fire Boomerang are legendary for their "easy mode" status, but I'm wondering if there are others. Like, is the mirror shield ranked alongside the red or gold ring, in your opinions? Are there any other items that may not be too powerful, but should be avoided at all costs?



#2 Einsiety

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 05:30 AM

Mirror Shield isn't that broken, you just have to place it well. I'd definitely put the Master Sword and Fire Boomerang in similar slots.

 

There's only two vanilla items I'd consider straight broken, that being the Gold Ring and Feather. Gold Ring is self explanatory, but glitches aside, when you're in top down perspective, the feather often straight up protects you from all damage in top down until you land, resulting in you just being able to power through most situations. You have to kind of figure out the line between "broken" and "only broken if you give it to the player like immediately." The feather only goes into the OP slot for me simply because no matter when you place it, it's still an item with a ridiculous amount of utility, and denying damage altogether for a few frames just does exactly that, unfortunately. The Gold Ring is the only vanilla item I'd look at and go "That's a truly broken item," though.



#3 ShadowTiger

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 06:50 AM

I've used the Hookshot to protect myself from Darknuts and Wizzrobes before.  When facing a Darknut, you need to ensure the Darknut isn't actually facing you.  If it walks into the path of the returning hookshot hook, you're pretty much good.  If you get the timing right, it's startlingly effective.  The hookshot will even stun them on its way back to you.  Again, though, you need very good timing.


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#4 Dark Ice Dragon

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 12:30 PM

yes, that kind of items  may be boken but you can adjust things, for roc feather you may let it consume magic so that you may jump few times.

For gold ring, you may hide it in a post game extra dungeon whit very powerfull foes 


Edited by Dark Ice Dragon, 27 July 2018 - 12:30 PM.


#5 Binx

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 12:48 PM

For gold ring, you may hide it in a post game extra dungeon whit very powerfull foes 

That's really the crux of why I did this topic I already know that the Master Sword and Gold Ring will be in the optional challenge dungeon. And I know I'm not using the Fire Boomerang (which, I, personally, think is *way* too OP. Boomerangs are already pretty powerful, but give them white sword damage *and* the ability to stun things that the regular boomerangs can't?), But I'm debating on whether to put the mirror shield in that dungeon, or to put it in the same late-game shop as the Red Ring. It should be noted that A)Enemies will likely be a bit tougher, on average, than Z1 official and B)Ring shops sell an armor, a shield, and a sword, all of which are edible, so if the Mirror Shield is considered a tier 4 item (alongside the Master Sword and Gold Ring), then Red Ring shops will have the Magical Shield and Blue Ring shops will have the Small Shield, which might be a little rough on players. But then, if I put the Mirror Shield with the Red Ring, I'll not have a shield for the Divine Armor set. I suppose I could just add a new shield that's in between the Magical and Mirror Shields.



#6 Alucard648

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 12:51 PM

That's really the crux of why I did this topic I already know that the Master Sword and Gold Ring will be in the optional challenge dungeon. And I know I'm not using the Fire Boomerang (which, I, personally, think is *way* too OP. Boomerangs are already pretty powerful, but give them white sword damage *and* the ability to stun things that the regular boomerangs can't?), But I'm debating on whether to put the mirror shield in that dungeon, or to put it in the same late-game shop as the Red Ring. It should be noted that A)Enemies will likely be a bit tougher, on average, than Z1 official and B)Ring shops sell an armor, a shield, and a sword, all of which are edible, so if the Mirror Shield is considered a tier 4 item (alongside the Master Sword and Gold Ring), then Red Ring shops will have the Magical Shield and Blue Ring shops will have the Small Shield, which might be a little rough on players. But then, if I put the Mirror Shield with the Red Ring, I'll not have a shield for the Divine Armor set. I suppose I could just add a new shield that's in between the Magical and Mirror Shields.

Mirror shield is needed for Mirror Wizzrobes.



#7 ShadowTiger

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:07 PM

In theory, you don't necessarily need the Mirror Shield if you can use another item to reflect the projectiles.  I have one quest where one variation of the Boomerang can reflect Magic but nothing else.  It also costs magic to use.  So if you got the Mirror Shield, it's the "lazy alternative" to that item.  So we've already basically turned a resource-intensive tactical situation into a lazy "just stand there to win" kinda thing, assuming Mirror-Robe hit points are far lower.  I never liked how many hit points Mirror-Robes have.  Standing still for specific amounts of time in specific places has never been so simultaneously boring and nerve-wracking. :P


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#8 Binx

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:17 PM

Mirror shield is needed for Mirror Wizzrobes.

I don't have to use MirrorRobes, though.

#9 klop422

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:47 PM

I think one can deal with the broken enemies as well. I mean, nerf them a bit (as you should do with the broken items as well), but in the right situations, they work ok.


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#10 Alucard648

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:07 PM

I think one can deal with the broken enemies as well. I mean, nerf them a bit (as you should do with the broken items as well), but in the right situations, they work ok.

I think, vanilla death knights are perfectly fine as it`s the only real threat to Link with full 2.10 inventory.



#11 Binx

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:31 PM

I think one can deal with the broken enemies as well. I mean, nerf them a bit (as you should do with the broken items as well), but in the right situations, they work ok.

I dunno how many of the more broken enemies can really be fixed. I mean, yeah, you can nerf Death Knights and Cracktoroks, but I dunno that WindRobes can really be fixed (outside of scripting), because of how they work.


I think, vanilla death knights are perfectly fine as it`s the only real threat to Link with full 2.10 inventory.

I dunno. What makes Death Knights so broken isn't really their damage or HP, it's that coupled with front-shielding, crazy speed, and homing



#12 Orithan

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 05:22 PM

A good nerf for the Roc's Feather would be to make it's arc less flexible like in the Oracle Games, in conjunction with nerfing its jump height. This would require scripting, but it would produce a Roc's Feather that's a lot harder to abuse.



#13 Binx

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 05:26 PM

I'll probably either add an MP cost, or some other kind of limit to it. 



#14 klop422

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 05:40 PM

A good nerf for the Roc's Feather would be to make it's arc less flexible like in the Oracle Games, in conjunction with nerfing its jump height. This would require scripting, but it would produce a Roc's Feather that's a lot harder to abuse.

I feel like the one we've got in 1SM is pretty good, but I don't know how usable that script is.



#15 Einsiety

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 05:58 PM

Going back to my previous post, since this thread has gotten a bit more active, I'd like to argue that the Gold Ring is too broken regardless of where you put it, as it absolutely trivializes the rest of the game. Unless you nerf it (Which isn't what this thread is about, it's about the vanilla versions of the items), it's probably the only item in Zelda Classic that just trivializes just about everything. The Master Sword, Feather, Fire Boomerang, and just about every useful usable item at least require input from the player, and if placed well, won't actually be broken, just "useful." the Gold Ring on the other hand, genuinely just trivializes everything afterwards, which is why I just outright avoid putting it in quests. You'll only ever need the Red Ring in any given lategame scenario, and at least with the Master Sword, Death Knights are still at least somewhat of a challenge.




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