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The Eight Objects

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I guess this is it


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#1 Saffith

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 03:34 PM

I've been refusing to accept it, but I think I finally have to admit I'm never going to finish this quest. I hate to give up when it's so far along, but I haven't done any significant work on it in years, and it's pretty clear I'm never going to.

Might as well let everyone play what there is of it, though, so here it is: The8Objects.zip

Levels 1-8 are pretty much done, except only levels 1, 2, and 4 have bosses. There's a fair amount of overworld, but you should use the debug menu to go to levels. It'll start you with an appropriate set of equipment. Not everything that's in there is necessarily complete. There are bits that still needed tweaked and fixed, especially for difficulty (and fairness).

The scripts are in there, too. Feel free to use any of them you like, though they vary greatly in quality.

Controls:
A: Open chests, read signs, etc.
Ex1: Open save menu (the option to disable hints doesn't work)
Ex2: Ask fairy for hint (only implemented in a few places)
Ex3: Open debug menu

The default difficulty is hard. You can change it at dungeon entrances. You can also change it at any time through the debug menu, but it won't fully take effect until you go to a new screen. It's still not fully implemented, particularly in levels 7 and 8.


Some general notes:

F6 is disabled. Use the mirror to go back to the entrance of a dungeon. It doesn't work if there are enemies around.
There's one magic container in each level.
There's one boss in the overworld. Walk around the graveyard for a while, and it'll show up eventually.
The white boomerang explodes into damaging sparkles if you press B again while it's in the air. This costs MP.
The bow is a very effective weapon in general, especially in later levels with the upgraded arrows. Just be careful about shooting anything too close.
The luck potion (the purple one) has various effects:
- Enemies drop better items
- Chests have more money
- Damage is randomly prevented
- If you die, you'll recover health based on how much time is left
It doesn't have proper graphics and sound, though.


Level 3
Spoiler


Level 4
Spoiler


Level 5
Spoiler


Level 6
Spoiler


Level 7
Spoiler


Level 8
Spoiler

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#2 Russ

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 04:33 PM

While it's a bummer to see that that the quest won't be finished, it's good that you've come to terms and released what there's. Perhaps it's not a "finished" quest, but a series of eight dungeons (even if some aren't completely balanced) is still meatier than most finished quests out there. I've been looking forward to this quest since the Fire in the Sky demo back however many years ago. I'll be sure to give me thoughts once I've played a bit.

Looking to the future, I take it this is basically the end of your work in ZC? Or are you thinking you might fiddle around with it some more in the future?
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#3 P-Tux7

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 07:24 PM

Isn't ZC 2.55 coming in Beta this December, though? Maybe the new features could spark your interest in this quest again.

#4 Evan20000

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 08:09 PM

Unfortunate that it's not getting finished up, but I'm glad to see it in some shape or form regardless. I've been looking forward to this one for a while.



#5 Saffith

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 12:59 PM

Didn't realize deactivating the project would lock the thread. :P But that's undoable, fortunately.
 

Looking to the future, I take it this is basically the end of your work in ZC? Or are you thinking you might fiddle around with it some more in the future?

I'd like to make a couple of minor updates to the quests I did finish, and I might clean up a couple of the enemy scripts from this one and submit them. Other than that, yeah, I think I'm done.
 

Isn't ZC 2.55 coming in Beta this December, though? Maybe the new features could spark your interest in this quest again.

Quite unlikely, I'm afraid. There was never anything I wanted to do but couldn't; I just ran out of steam to actually do it.

#6 P-Tux7

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 04:09 PM

Huh, ok. Judging from what I've heard, it seems you had the bosses to make + level 9. Is there actually more to the quest that would be needed to work on?

#7 Dimentio

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 04:43 PM

So in level 3, there appears to be a wrong key order thing, cause if you use the first key to get the (unusable) flute, you're stuck. I'm actually not sure how to make the flute useable, cause the pipe organ room (that I had to give myself a key to access) doesn't seem to do anything and that's the only thing I can think of. Nevermind, turns out giving you the level item also gave you the melody and all I did to try ungiving myself the usable flute was take it away via cheats.

Nevermind this entire post; there was a key behind the other locked door that's just annoying to find since you wouldn't get the compass until the other locked door. That, plus the bad design spammy 2 hearts of damage enemies this early on makes me really despise this dungeon.


Edited by Dimentio, 28 July 2019 - 05:15 PM.


#8 Saffith

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 11:11 PM

Huh, ok. Judging from what I've heard, it seems you had the bosses to make + level 9. Is there actually more to the quest that would be needed to work on?

And some of the overworld, plus caves, houses, etc. Then a lot of tweaking, polishing, and testing. Most of it's done, but what's left is still pretty substantial.

Nevermind this entire post; there was a key behind the other locked door that's just annoying to find since you wouldn't get the compass until the other locked door. That, plus the bad design spammy 2 hearts of damage enemies this early on makes me really despise this dungeon.

Yeah, it's a bit heavy on the annoying enemies, I'm afraid. You probably won't care for the bees or freezards, either. Definitely should've had fewer of those. Oh, well.

#9 James24

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 03:12 AM

I remember playing the 8 objects demo when it first came out and I really liked it.  I always looked forward to seeing the final completed quest but I guess that's not going to happen now.

 

I've just played through all the 8 levels on very hard mode and you've certainly been able to accommodate for the very hard player taste.  I couldn't figure out how to use the space warps in the starlight temple so I opened up your scripts and after much digging and deciphering, I finally found out what I needed to do.  Try as I might, I can't beat the level 4 boss without cheating and restoring my health multiple times even on normal mode.  Maybe I'm not doing something right, but the beamos beams are nearly unavoidable and when the boss is near death, he speeds up quite a bit and making the last attack is very difficult.

 

I must say, 8 objects is a nice piece of work.  Its a shame that it has to end like this.



#10 vaualbus

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 06:55 PM

Why just not put the entrance of the levels somewhere in the overworld? Not a full overworld but just let us be able to have quest playable. I think is alittle of work on doing this. Maybye this can also let you be back on quest design...



#11 James24

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 11:40 PM

Vaualbus - the quest is playable.  You just need to access the levels via the debug menu.

 

I think its important for all of us to learn valuable take-home lessons from this quest.  Saffith is no doubt a very skilled quest maker - able to do whatever he wanted with his brilliant and almost unequalled know-how of scripting.  Quest completion would have taken only a couple of more weeks if he put his mind to it and worked on it very vigourously.  So what held him back?  Why did a job that would have taken two weeks stretch on for years and ultimately lead to quest cancellation? 

 

IMHO, he attempted to accommodate for other player's tastes through his difficulty system.  From what I can see from the scripting that went into his difficulty system it was quite elaborate and he certainly went to some lengths to alter enemy movement/behaviour for different difficulties.  Instead of pursuing his dream quest and his dream difficulty, he tried to please everyone.  Trying to please everyone is forbidden when not being paid large amounts of money under the James's third law of quest making.  Only exception is rule number 2 which allows it when its a "quick fix" like certain cheap numerical buffs/nerfs we've seen but they've been proven not to work.

 

If Saffith had simply pursued his dream quest at his dream difficulty to the exclusion of everyone else, I think we would have seen a complete quest by now.  If that dream difficulty was very hard (which it very likely is), then he would no doubt have lost a large portion of the fanbase.  I think that that is a necessary sacrifice to ensure that the dream quest is completed otherwise there will not even be a quest at all - as is the case here.



#12 Dimentio

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 12:00 AM

Actually, I think he didn't finish because he's tired of ZC. Why work in ZC when OoT hacking exists, which is pretty much ZC but in 3D and comes with ladder scripts by default?

To be fair, a good difficulty system doesn't have to be elaborate to be effective, nor does it being elaborate mean it has to be hard. Saffith had the option to just cut it from the quest if it was a big problem, yet instead he cancelled it, despite the removal of the difficulty system being effortless. So no, I don't think the difficulty system is anywhere related to the cancellation of the quest.


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#13 Saffith

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 12:12 AM

I guess I could at least explain that this is largely for personal reasons that I'd rather not get into too much. The last several years have been tremendously stressful. I'd hoped I could get more done once everything was over, but I just can't. I'm as disappointed as anyone to leave the quest unfinished, but I really need to do pretty much anything else now.

#14 Moosh

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 03:22 AM

Beat the quest on very hard. What a ride. Aside from a rough start in levels 2 and 3 and a bit of frustration in level 6 (bomb slugs and flower shooters AAAAAAAAAAAAAA) the whole thing was a joy to play even on the hardest difficulty. Level 4 might be one of my new favorites. I may also have to go on a stealtastic adventure with some of the dungeon's aesthetics. :P

 

Shame the quest couldn't be finished, but I'm glad we at least got to see what was done. 

 

Try as I might, I can't beat the level 4 boss without cheating and restoring my health multiple times even on normal mode.  Maybe I'm not doing something right, but the beamos beams are nearly unavoidable and when the boss is near death, he speeds up quite a bit and making the last attack is very difficult.

I heard from Dimentio that this boss was rough as well, oddly I didn't have too much trouble with him. My strategy involved mostly running away from him until he chose to spawn in a convenient spot, since outspeeding him is basically impossible. When the beamos attack came it seemed easier to dodge them at a diagonal, though he seemed to do it much less frequently when I kept him offscreen. Trying it again with a more aggressive play, yeah, that doesn't work well at all.



#15 vaualbus

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 08:09 AM

I guess I could at least explain that this is largely for personal reasons that I'd rather not get into too much. The last several years have been tremendously stressful. I'd hoped I could get more done once everything was over, but I just can't. I'm as disappointed as anyone to leave the quest unfinished, but I really need to do pretty much anything else now.

And I can understand your motivation. But I think having just the entrance on the overworld would be nice.

Anyways I wish everything will return to ordinary life and you will be able to make other quest and -maybye- finish this one one day in a distance future!




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