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Swimming with the sharks


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#16 Rambly

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 11:08 PM

I consider myself an unchained, and raw, "Alpha Questmaker" and as such, I've no need for your pithy "ratings" or "

 

I had to stop this joke mid-sentence because I seriously don't get, like, why this is still, like, a problem?  Just make the quest you want to make.  Like why does there need to be a problem.  Who's telling you you can't make the quest you'd like James24.  Who hurt you.  A shark?????????????????????

 

As for saving people from sharks, I think sharks are scary (I saw Jaws once) (pretty good movie actually) (yeah it started the whole summer blockbuster thing and I have some general cynicism towards summer blockbusters but Jaws is genuinely good -- it's a little slow to start but once it gets going, hooboy!  Does that movie get going)

 

Uh where was I.  Right, uh, I'd try to save like, I dunno, my girlfriend from a shark.  Or someone I deeply loved.  If it was a stranger I'd probably clal the police or a lifeguard but since apparently in this hypothetical scenario I'm an idiot who don't charge they dang phone (or eat hot chip or lie) I'd probably not try to save the guy, I'm not an idiot, but I'd like run around screaming like "hey someone help this dude out."  If it was someone like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos or some other rich capitalist dude, eh.  Let the forces of nature do what they will


Actually I think if everyone had guns you could probably just shoot the shark with the gun and it'd go away.  What does everyone think?  Are sharks scared of guns?  I think they are.  I think Biden's too much of a fucking senile old pussy to even talk about what to do about sharks, and I'm not even sure Trump knows what a shark is.  If Bernie had won the nomination he'd tax the shark's income with a wealth tax and the shark would just move to a country with more permissive tax laws, so Panama or whatever would have too many sharks.  It's just a fucked up situation and nobody knows what to do about it


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#17 DarkFlameSheep

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 11:43 PM

Or second situation seems to mean The Liberation of Hyrule series itself. And general people avoid too difficult things anyway...


Edited by DarkFlame Sheep, 18 May 2020 - 12:12 AM.


#18 James24

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 01:18 AM

For those who are curious this scenario relates to ZC in two ways. 

 

First, the relation to type B quests.  For those who are unfamiliar with my terms, type B is used to refer to people who prefer and enjoy playing difficult quests - see Armageddon Quest.  Type A refers to those who prefer playing easier and more relaxed quests which often feature puzzles, narrative, good graphics, very easy bosses - see Rite of the Storm.  All quest makers will make quests that they naturally prefer and enjoy without any regard for what others want.  It comes naturally to any quest maker to do this.  You make quests that you personally think is "beautiful" and that you think personally enjoy playing.  Its like that first scenario - an easy lifesaving job.

 

Where it gets difficult and complicated is when there's a fanbase who demands that you change your vision and tastes to suit their playing preferences.  That is, a type A fanbase demanding that the type B quest maker make a "lite" mode for them.  The second scenario represents this demand from the type B quest maker's perspective.  The time taken to reach the guy represents the time that would have to be spent making a quest that the type B maker finds outright disgusting to play.  The sharks represent the danger that the type B quest maker will be taking in attempting to accommodate for type A tastes.  What happens if their difficulty balance is not in "sync" with what type A considers a beautiful difficulty and the quest flops because of it?  Finally, the lack of life-saving experience represents the fact that a type B quest maker has exactly this lack of type A knowledge.  It would be almost impossible for a type B quest maker to know what a type A audience enjoys because they simply don't share the same taste and vision for what is a "good and fun" way of playing Zelda.   So therefore, it is entirely logical and reasonable for a type B quest maker to abandon the type A fanbase.  Sure, they're going to lose all their popularity and social standing but that's a small price to pay to protect themselves from the sharks - and most people here seem to agree. 

 

The only thing that can change this equation is if the type A fanbase were to be waving its wallet around and offering large sums of money for a beautiful type  A quest.  This would give a type B quest maker all the incentive in the world to try and rescue the drowning type A players.

 

Speaking of large sums of money, Zoria is going to have one last ditch attempt at saving ZC from dying with his monetization and generalization attempts for 2.55.  The idea is that the investors out there amougst us raise, say, $30,000 to pay an outstanding and brilliant quest maker to work full time on a flagship type A quest instead of going to their regular job for income.  If the quest sells 5000 copies, something like ioR, and each copy has a price of $10, then theoretically the quest can turn a profit of $20,000 which would be enough to compensate the investors for their risky investment.  The day will come when each and every one of us will be asked whether they want to put their wallet on the line in last dich attempt to save ZC.  The ZC fanbase is finally going to start waving its wallet but who amougst us out there is willing to swim for days on end in shark infested waters to save it?



#19 DarkFlameSheep

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 01:36 AM

People who overestimate their value so much, their words seem to sound like logical, but in fact only empty.


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#20 Chris

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 01:39 AM

You all keep forgetting the internet. If you can't save him, you will feel somewhat guilty to a certain degree. If you can't save him and some relative goes crazy, naming you guilty, you suffer quite a lot more from it. If that relative now brings the story to the internet and just gets enough attention while warping it to a murder story, good chance your social live is over. Who wants to interact with a coldblooded murder after all that stands around with a crazed up smile as you get eaten by sharks?

#21 Russ

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 01:47 AM

Wait, you mean this thread wasn't actual about some bizarre shark hypothetical, but was actually just an excuse for James to peddle his Type A/B argument and warn us the ZC end times are near once more? I, for one, am shocked.

notsurprisedkirk.jpg

Ignoring the Type A/B stuff for now since this poor horse has been beaten so hard it's practically glue now, let's take a look at the original hypothetical. There's a moral conundrum buried in there somewhere, basically "Do you have an moral obligation to save someone's life if you risk bodily harm to yourself in the process?" But you've pushed it to a point where it's kind of nonsensical. As others have pointed out, how do we know this person is drowning if they're several days out at sea? How would we even reach them? There's no moral dilemma if there's no possibility of actually succeeding, unless we're entering some surreal trolley memes here. I mean, it's mostly a moot point here cuz you're trying to use this to bolster your same old argument, posting it here after making no progress with Moosh.

With all that said though, looking at the original argument you sent to Moosh... yikes. Like, argue about the extent you have to put yourself at risk all you want, but walking by somebody dying and do absolutely nothing? Not even the bare minimum like asking "Hey, does anybody here see that guy drowning, can somebody go help him?" And feeling completely justified in doing so? That's... not right, to put it mildly. As is only doing it only for social standing. I'm hard pressed to think of any moral philosophy where that would be condoned, unless you wanna head on down to Galt's Gulch.

I am legitimately curious what keeps you making threads like this. You've made it clear you dislike the majority of quests pushed out these days because they don't conform to your Type B standards. Every time you make a new thread, people roll their eyes and/or shitpost. What do you get out of all this? I feel like I have a pretty good idea of how you think and operate, but your fixation on preaching to this little internet community continues to confuse me. Do you think you're convincing anybody? Are you just looking for any kind of response? I really mean no offense here, I'm just trying to understand your stake in this.
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#22 Evan20000

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 01:51 AM

So how many times can you pick your nose before it starts to bleed do you think? Does nostril matter? Finger choice (aside from nail size which almost certainly matters)?


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#23 Zaxarone

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 01:58 AM

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#24 Shane

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 01:59 AM

All quest makers will make quests that they naturally prefer and enjoy without any regard for what others want.

You seem to have the right attitude here, but the problem is, you clearly care for what others want out of you, perhaps even assuming what others want. I never seen any demand for a lite version of your quest and even if there was I would probably be one of the people to say you don't need to create a lite version if you don't want to. Life's short, and this is just a fan game making hobby, use ZC however you want. You don't need threads like this to justify not doing something, this is all just common sense. But again the problem is you do care, despite reassuring us you don't, and I think that's the reason you make these threads, you can't convince yourself you're in it for yourself.

 

As for the original hypothetical, I'm really not sure how to answer it realistically since it doesn't make much sense. But others that tried to make sense out of it said some pretty good answers.


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#25 Moosh

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 02:07 AM

But again the problem is you do care, despite reassuring us you don't, and I think that's the reason you make these threads, you can't convince yourself you're in it for yourself.

I mean the reason he made this thread in particular was I told him he should, after we danced around the idea for several posts, à la "What if I put my shark hypothetical next to yours? Haha, jk. Unless...?" However the decision to derail his own thread talking about lite mode was 100% James. :)

Edited by Moosh, 18 May 2020 - 02:08 AM.

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#26 DarkFlameSheep

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 02:14 AM

First, the relation to type B quests.  For those who are unfamiliar with my terms, type B is used to refer to people who prefer and enjoy playing difficult quests - see Armageddon Quest. 

I don't deny type B quest concept but I said now standard of type B quest is Mike's Fun House, not original AQ. Simply, original AQ and LoH series is already old things good or bad.

 

And I never said you should make type A quests, but said like LoH series are too hard as type B quest.


Edited by DarkFlame Sheep, 18 May 2020 - 02:32 AM.

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#27 Aevin

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 02:38 AM

Alright, I'm going to go ahead and close this.

 

James, please don't make threads if your sole purpose is to repeat yourself on the same tired topics. More of this kind of thing may result in warning points.

 

Everyone else, as a matter of practice, please respond to the topic, as directed by the first post in the thread, rather jump on an opportunity to argue with someone based on what they've said before. There have been interesting discussion topics in many of James's threads, but everyone going, "REEE! Type A, Type B!" makes a mess of things. This kind of behavior, or shitposty meme posts, may also result in warning points.

 

This is not how discussion of topics on this forum are going to take place.


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