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Gay Marriage


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#31 ShadowTiger

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 01:38 PM

QUOTE
I think they should be able to get married. I know quite a few gay people, most of the guys I know are gay, and they are some of the nicest people that I have met, and it saddens me that they can't get married.
Yes, that is a shame. icon_frown.gif I know a lot of Homosexual individuals as well. All of them I wish a very happy life, just the same as anyone else. I don't see a reason why everyone has so much against them. They're people too. icon_odd2.gif ..

And so what if it's not natural. ANY MACHINE IN THE WORLD is not natural. icon_eyebrow.gif Humans made that by hand. Is Marriage natural either? Well, that certainly depends on which views you hold, be they creationist or evolutionist. Amoebas never got married. icon_razz.gif (At least not in the traditional sense, anyway. Who knows if one Amoeba hung around one particular other Amoeba for all of its life. But that's none of our business, now is it.)

And on to different religions. Different religions have different views, right? (This, hopefully, you cannoy deny.) If Gay people went to Hell in the Christian Religion, and nothing happens to them in the Jewish Religion, (Though I have no idea on that one.) what if there was a religion that said only Gay people went to Heaven? What if there was a religion that said all Gay people are actually giant gorillas in cat suits in human suits? icon_odd2.gif ... How do we know which religion is right? If it's such a varying issue, how can we even input our beliefs into it when it's so obviously unstable?


And that's only touching the surface of why Gay people should be allowed to Marry. (I just have to go to class now. icon_sweat.gif )

#32 Takuya

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 01:48 PM

Ok..This is getting kinda dumb. Firstly, there's a LOT of people that don't have kids. we're not getting extinct anytime soon, even if 90% of the population had no kids, it would still take a freaking long time. Secondly, So a gay guy hits on you. If a girl hits on you, and you don't like her, would you hate her or all girls because of it? Thirdly, everyone that you hear saying, "It's against my religion", Does it matter to you that much? Are you strict orthodox, or do you pray every single day to your God(s), and follow every rule? Even then, YOU aren't the gay one, they might not be the same religion as you, it doesn't matter. So, "They should go to hell", because, according to some religions, being homosexual is a sin, there's like what, A BAJILLION other sins you could possibly commit? If it were that way, then I think EVERYONE would go to Hell.

Also, I say let them get married, they won't hurt anyone. Would you like it if you weren't allowed to love the girl/guy(s) you liked? You would feel a heck of a lot different than you do now. I mean, come ON, this isn't something that you can selfishly vote on, it's stated in the Preamble to the Consitution, "May each man follow Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happyness" You're depriving them of their rights. I mean, it won't hurt anyone, and hell, I know so many other wrong things, and people that are different than everyone else, but they don't get penalized for it. You can't help what sex you're attracted to, and you know what, I don't think I'd mind being different.

Some of you guys are really disgusting with your lame opinions. This is like the "BUSH ROOLEZ, ND KERRY SUX" Debates. Use some logic, and try to have some thought into what you type.

EDIT: Marriage is not natural anyways. Oh yeah, God decreed it. Do we have proof? Some 10,000 year old texts aren't going to get me to believe someone got told that gay people should die in hell by a god. Marriage was made by MANKIND, so ponder that.

I'm out.

Edited by Darklink813, 25 October 2004 - 01:50 PM.


#33 Valerie

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 02:00 PM

I wish that some people weren't so mean to gays, some of the gay people I know are really depressed and some are suicidial because of the way they get treated. Some people think it's a choice, but after being around as much gay people as I have, and hearing them talk about it, I know it's not. I don't completely understand it though, partly because I think I might be bi. Also alot of people seem to be against gay marriage becuase they think they can adopt kids then, but in alot of states they already can adopt without being married. There is this one woman I know who said she was against gays, but then found out that her son was gay, and then she realized she didn't know what "gay" really was, and that she had the wrong opinion of them, she thought that they acted a way that they didn't.

#34 Jaivaz

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 02:55 PM

This is so foolish, they claim to keep religion and state seperated but look at this now... I must say, as American Citizens, we have the right to marry any sex that we wish, if someone wishes to marry their pet, they can, if they want to marry their son, they can (if they're adults.) So people should stop being so dull minded and going only as far as Religion allows you to, what good is the free thought we were born with if we restrict it with Religion? Anyway, Gay people should be able to marry each other. And they can adopt children, it doesn't matter. If the child has a tough life, then let them commit suicide, it doesn't matter if one child dies.

#35 Radien

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 02:58 PM

QUOTE(Firestorm)
Well, if we make that a law, you have virtually implied marriage can be whatever you want. So, if I want to marry an animal...maybe that should be allowed, too. Or my car. Or my computer.

And if we allow DOGS to roam free on the streets at night, pretty soon we'll be allowing LIONS to roam free, to!!!!! OMG!!!!!111

Pure paranoia.

QUOTE
Let me ask all of you. If there were two groups of parents in front of you (and I know this isn't real, but that's not the point), the first group being two men, and the second group being a man and a woman, which would you choose to be your parents?

It would depend on personal background, not gender.

Haven't you ever seen Three Men and a Baby?

Better yet, please note that you're talking about the American nuclear family. Some other cultures think its a travesty that we don't have our aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, and even in-laws present as core family members.



QUOTE
CCC: 1) 1/2 of marriages end in divorce. That's really unfortunate. Terrible. But would you mind explaining how a child who is experiencing a turbulence of emotions after his mother and father split would react if his father suddenly fell in love with another guy?

The kid would have just as much reason to be stressed if his father fell in love with another woman. Besides, most of the worry comes from how society will treat them, NOT how they will treat the child.

QUOTE
You say religion must stay out of the government. And I agree, it must stay out somewhat. But, what do all coins say? "In WHAT we trust?" God! The pledge of alleigance! "Under GOD!"

So religion should stay out of government, but not really, because "Christianity is #1 w00t!"?

Literally thousands of religions with no connection to Christianity believe in one God. It's called monotheism. It's a very, very large category of religions.

QUOTE
And one more thing: for a marriage system that has worked for thousands of years in society (between a man and a woman), without major problems, why should I place my trust in some Massachusetts politician who all of a sudden comes up with his own standards for marriage to be ruled in court?

Worked for thousands of years? Oh my... that's a good one. icon_lol.gif What exactly is your definition of "worked?" The fact that we're (mostly) all still alive?

Firestorm, let's look for a moment at YOUR religions rights:

The Bill of Rights guarantees you, and every other individual in this country, the freedom to believe whatever you want.

It does NOT guarantee you the right to use the government to make the outside world conform to your religion's liking.

Case closed.

#36 Lemon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE(Radien @ Oct 25 2004, 12:58 PM)
And if we allow DOGS to roam free on the streets at night, pretty soon we'll be allowing LIONS to roam free, to!!!!! OMG!!!!!111

Pure paranoia.

Zc-Ninja- GOD NO NOT THE LOINS!!!!!!!
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So religion should stay out of government, but not really, because "Christianity is #1 w00t!"?

Zc-Ninja- In some peoples views ( not mine ), yes.
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Case closed.

Zc-Ninja- Good show, good show

Sorry, I just had to put my comments there. icon_lol.gif
Religion is a great thing. icon_smile.gif
People who worship religon are not bad people. icon_biggrin.gif
People who use reilgion or try to use religion to gain power or money, bad. icon_frown.gif
Another thing thats kinda off-topic, but had to say it for all the times that lasts one has happened.
ANYWAY.... I dont think the world is going to have less people just because gay people can get married. They can live with eachother, which plenty do, and they dont have children. The only real differnce bettween living together, and having a marriage, are the ownership, and bonding laws that come with it. You can cry all you want about how its wrong, but they are living together out there. ( Anit-Gays Gasp here )

One other thing, if we add a law preventing it to the consitution, that will be the first law that TAKES AWAY Rights... I am thinking they might try to rider a smaller version of the law as a rider ( look down to see definition )

#37 Ccc

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 06:29 PM

Allot of people have said (thought not directly) that marriage is an institution for raising children, but two people (whether they be male and male, female, female, or male, female) can raise children, with out being married and still be good parents.
QUOTE
'm sorry I'm little crazy about this, once homosexual hit on me and now I hate them all. . . Sorry but thats the way I am.

Thats no reason to hate then, unless he didn't leave you alone when it was clear you weren't interested and that you are striate, if so, don;t judge the hole by the actions of the few. The majority of homosexual people are nice, good people and should be judged and treated as such as for the ass holes, treat them the same way you would treat any ass hole, gay or striate, knock there ****ing ass's out.

#38 Vincent

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 07:37 PM

I think the number one reason that the divorce rate is so high is because people don't marry for the for the right reasons in the first place. After the novelty of living together starts to wear off they find that they don't want to deal with the responsibility and that they can't continue to treat one another as objects for pleasure. Kind of like those that go get drunk and go through a drive-through chapel in Las Vegas. icon_rolleyes.gif

#39 Ccc

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:24 PM

I think so many marriages end in divorce it cause humans are no naturally monogamous creatures. Both men and women in a relationship or married look at fantasize about and are attracted to other people and in an era of lack of self control like this one, people more easily give in to there urges witch leads to allot of divorces. But thats not the sole reason half the marriages end in divorce, People who get married to fast then realize that they don't like each other is another reason and Vincent is also right, but its not the bigest reason. And there are many more reason

#40 Radien

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:43 PM

ZC Ninja:

Always a good thing to remind people of. icon_smile.gif I wish people would just stop and say "taking away rights of individuals? We don't do that here."

Ccc and Vincent:

Don't forget another reason it happens: downplaying of the severity of divorce. If there are no social consequences, they have less incentive to think it over before committing. Young people are separated from their parents earlier and more significantly than the "small town" era, and people are generally more mobile, so unfortunately there's less to hold them to their word. :\

On the upside, people are not quite so chained to their mistakes...but then, now more people make those mistakes. It's a catch-22 situation.

#41 coinilius

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:25 PM

QUOTE(FireStorm @ Oct 25 2004, 07:39 AM)
It was a commonly accepted idea that God existed in society back then, and only that has changed with the ages. The Founding Fathers stuck God in there because everybody used to believe He existed. The same with gay marriage. Everybody used to believe it was wrong. It was a cultural taboo of sorts. Only through the ages have our perceptions of marriage changed. Why after 200 some odd years is it suddenly wrong for there to be a 10 Commandments placard in Alabama?

Actually, this isn't entirely true.. yes, our perceptions have changed through the ages, but not quite in the way you're thinking (in regards to gay marriage). Homosexuality as we understand it is only a very recent phenomena. In times past and in different cultures, sexual acts were quite common between people of the same sex - the greeks were ok with it; in mythology, Hercules had a male lover, so to did Archilles. Alexander the Great had male lover. In some tribal cultures, homosexual acts are quite often a necesarry part of the transition between child and adult (in many of these cases, it is usually between an older man and a younger one, as part of the initiation ceremony - I think in ancient Greece it was more of an older man/younger man thing as well).

#42 Mad Dog

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:36 PM

Certain body parts were made for certain body functions.

And as far as religion goes, I won't start a thread about it here, I did that on another forum, and although they wanted to talk like adults about it, some idiots kept posting flames.

If you want any [b]evidence[/i] on why the Bible is not just a 10,000 year old book, send me a pm. But unlike most people, I won't lose my cool and condemn you to Hell.

#43 Ccc

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE
Don't forget another reason it happens: downplaying of the severity of divorce. If there are no social consequences, they have less incentive to think it over before committing. Young people are separated from their parents earlier and more significantly than the "small town" era, and people are generally more mobile, so unfortunately there's less to hold them to their word.


Thats a good point. I think marred couples with children should put there children first and do there best to get along with each other but uniformity allot don't, in many (though not most) the children became pons (couldn't remember, couldn't find how to spell it) of the angry parents who wont to get back at there x. On the other hand there are some (though few) shouldn't stay to gather, ifs one abusive, never home or they just can't get along to mater how hard they try, they should really get a divorce cause it woul;d be more damaging to the children if they stay to gather. Those who don't have children or there children are grone, they shouldn't have to stay together if they don't wont to. Its the children thats important.
QUOTE
And as far as religion goes, I won't start a thread about it here, I did that on another forum, and although they wanted to talk like adults about it, some idiots kept posting flames.

If you wont to dingus religion, start a thread in my debate forum at GQMR. I'll keep the flamimg basterds away.

Edited by Ccc, 25 October 2004 - 10:56 PM.


#44 August Yifu

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 08:06 PM

I think that gay people not being to be allowed to be married is just a primitive phase that that the world will outgrow. Just like women and black people, gay people will be respected and will be able to do alot more in the near future.

#45 ShadowTiger

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 08:28 PM

FACT: There have always been gay people. They just weren't brave enough to openly admit it until now. icon_glare.gif Those who did, were prosecuted.


And don't tell me it's not natural. If it wasn't natural, we wouldn't see it AT ALL! O_O


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