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Quest Designing Habits You Love/Hate the Most


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#1 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 06:48 PM

Quest designing habits you love the most?

Quest designing habits you hate the most?

#2 Anthus

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 07:26 PM

Quest designing habits you love the most?

Quest designing habits you hate the most?

 

Coming up with great ideas for stuff that would be fun to do, or see.

 

Running out of motivation, or effort to implement ideas that could be fun to do, or see.

 

No, but more seriously, I think I'm decent at making overworld maps. It's one of the more fun parts about making quests, but then I get to that point where I start adding tiles, and stuff only to come back a few weeks later, and quit cause it is not organized at all.


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#3 Architect Abdiel

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:13 PM

One thing I hate is noticing that I am working on the wrong layer ans going back to fix multiple screen.
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#4 Orithan

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:28 PM

Coming up with novel and unique ideas, and implementing them into ZQ smoothly.

Taking a concept and running with it too far, spawning another project from it which never gets finished.


Edited by Orithan, 05 March 2018 - 08:28 PM.

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#5 Anthus

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 09:14 PM

One thing I hate is noticing that I am working on the wrong layer ans going back to fix multiple screen.

 

I have done this so many times. It may have actually killed a project at one point.



#6 James24

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:03 PM

Guys, I think what New Journeys Fire is referring to is Quest designing habits you love/hate the most from the viewpoint of a player - not from a quest designer's perspective.  I put it to you that the audience will talk all they want but I don't seriously think any unpaid quest maker is going to be substantially changing their habits just because other people are talking good or bad about their quest.  And if you can't achieve change then what's the point of talking?


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#7 Anthus

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:20 PM

Guys, I think what New Journeys Fire is referring to is Quest designing habits you love/hate the most from the viewpoint of a player - not from a quest designer's perspective.  

 

Hm, in that case, I like when people make areas that are fun to go through. It may be a cop out answer, but it's how I feel. I don't really like obscure puzzles, or huge, labyrinthine dungeons, but others may love that type of thing. Some people like stories, some people like graphics, some people like everything in between. I don't play a lot of ZC quests these days, but I tend to lean towards the ones that aren't a standard 9 dungeon affair. I like quests that go for quality over quantity. I'm not going to spend 20-30 hours playing a ZC quest. I would rather spend 5 or so, but again, different preferences for everyone.

 

What I really don't like in quests is lack of shortcuts, or have excessively clumsy, or unbalanced design. Consistency is very important, and following, and establishing your own rules is very important. What even more important is conveying those rules to players in a concise way where they can use that information to take on situations in various ways. When people make quests, or games in general, they always have a way that they think the player is going to do something. I think making a good quest comes down to making sure that stuff is challenging and unique without being overly complicated, or obtuse. Again, cop out answer, but it's what I think.

 

I think this is why it is hard for so many people to finish stuff. It really isn't easy to make a game, and that's a fact. And no matter how much you try, you will not please everyone. That's okay, as long as you are enjoying playing whatever you are playing, or making whatever you are making.


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#8 Deedee

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:22 PM

but I don't seriously think any unpaid quest maker is going to be substantially changing their habits just because other people are talking good or bad about their quest. 

Except a lot of people want their quest to be played and enjoyed by others, in which case they often go as far as to beg for criticism when people are otherwise too lazy to give it.


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#9 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:25 PM

Guys, I think what New Journeys Fire is referring to is Quest designing habits you love/hate the most from the viewpoint of a player - not from a quest designer's perspective. 

 

^ This.

 

But I'm enjoying reading the comments from the quest developer perspective too. 


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#10 TheLegend_njf

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:41 PM

Except a lot of people want their quest to be played and enjoyed by others, in which case they often go as far as to beg for criticism when people are otherwise too lazy to give it.

 

This is why I personally don't expect to receive criticism all too often unless it's through the grapevine. People hate giving criticism. But I will continue saying flat out many times "I want criticism" as a good practice. (probably because some people tend to not handle criticism well and takes outrageous behaviors in response to feedback) I believe many people just seems to want to preserve the feelings of others rather than give honest feedback. I feel the only way to listen to criticism well, is you got to either read between the lines or hear it through the grapevine because while people will never give you honest criticism to your face, they don't mind talking about it to others while you're not around, and they do not realize how much or how easily this form of gossip spreads. lol

 

Also, there is a level where criticism turns to nitpick, and I have no interest on catering to nitpickers. 


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#11 Anthus

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:49 PM

This is why I personally don't expect to receive criticism all too often unless it's through the grapevine. People hate giving criticism. But I will continue saying flat out many times "I want criticism" as a good practice. (probably because some people tend to not handle criticism well and takes outrageous behaviors in response to feedback) I believe many people just seems to want to preserve the feelings of others rather than give honest feedback. I feel the only way to listen to criticism well, is you got to either read between the lines or hear it through the grapevine because while people will never give you honest criticism to your face, they don't mind talking about it to others while you're not around, and they do not realize how much or how easily this form of gossip spreads. lol

 

Also, there is a level where criticism turns to nitpick, and I have no interest on catering to nitpickers. 

 

This is a great point, and probably true in any community centered around content creation. But, what one considers a nit-pick might be a glaring, game breaking design flaw to others. This is an extreme example, but it goes to show that communities are fickle in some ways, and everyone has their own idea of what "the perfect quest" is. I think it is important to give criticism, but also to make it clear that it is your own opinion, and not present it as objective fact. This is the underlying problem, imo, in any community like this.

 

edit: People here seem really passive, I guess? Myself included. I always say stuff like, "Oh, that looks fun" or, "Wow, that's neat" or whatever, cause I don't want to spend the time telling someone something like, "No, this is horse shit cause blah blah blah." I don't want to do that cause A) it is technically against the rules, and B) I don't want to make other people feel like shit for something they've worked hard on/ had fun with, etc. And no, this is not a literal example, or aimed at anyone. This is a hyperbole for the sake of making a point. :P



#12 Orithan

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 07:03 AM

Part of the reason I am so passive is that I have difficulty getting my point across in the way I want to. I have a slightly different way of understanding and interpretation to many other people and thus what I say could be lost or misconstrued because my message didn't quite get across. Not that I am blaming anybody for it, it's a difference between how I think and everyone else thinks.

 

Another reason I am so passive is because I don't wanna end up dumping on quests, especially if the quest I played is from a newcomer. My method of reviewing can get a bit ranty and end up feeling like me dumping on the quest over actual criticism.


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#13 Yloh

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 01:02 PM

My strengths: People who have played my demo and my beta testers really love my creativity. My dungeon gimmicks are innovative, my traps are clever, and music selection is top notch. 

 

My weaknesses:  My overall art direction is more utilitarian vs pretty. It does get better later on, but it really shows in the first half. Gameplay: My backtracking was horrible. For example: if you died at the final gauntlet in Level 4, you would have to walk though at least 25 screens before going back to the point where you died. Thanks to criticism, this problem won't be much of an issue for my future beta testers.   


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#14 James24

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:16 PM

Dimentio - I'll agree that a lot of people want their quest to be played and enjoyed by others - myself included but I know that's a dream that will never come true at least not without great sacrifices on my part.  But lets say that the feedback and criticism you get is completely 100% incompatible with the quest you dream of.  What are you to do then?  You have only one of three options and they all stink.
 
1) You ignore all criticism and pursue your heart's desire.  It'll cost you an audience but at the end of the day you'll have the quest you love.
 
2) You give up your dream quest and become a slave to everyone else's criticisms and opinions.  You'll get your audience but it'll cost you your dream quest and you'll have spent all your precious time catering to the wants of others simply to have good feedback.  I would never take that trade and I don't think any quest maker has ever done that to my knowledge.
 
3) You put on a cheap cosmetic change to make your "true" quest more appealing to others.  History has shown that this approach never works and quest makers should save themselves the trouble.  Good examples: Isle of Rebirth, Legend of Lana DX, Titan's quest, Armageddon Quest Forever, Origin's Extreme, 2013 New Quest, Zelda 3: Return of Ganon, Herald of Heroes.  List goes on...


#15 Anthus

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:47 PM

2) You give up your dream quest and become a slave to everyone else's criticisms and opinions.  You'll get your audience but it'll cost you your dream quest and you'll have spent all your precious time catering to the wants of others simply to have good feedback.  I would never take that trade and I don't think any quest maker has ever done that to my knowledge.

 

This is pretty much why I don't share any actual projects these days. I'll post screens, and stuff, but I don't really like to give away any more details then I have to through help topics etc. No one has really said anything terrible about my work (at least, not to me directly lol), but people have definitely raised some eyebrows at some of my tile choices, for sure.

 

It's like it says in Avataro's sig: Let's enjoy ZC, and don't bring each other down". Or something.




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