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The Third Legacy

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The Third Legacy (v1.2 released)


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#1 Lüt

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:08 PM

Seeing as how the quest's just been posted and people are already playing it and asking about it, I figured I"d start this topic here for future discussions or help issues.

This isn't really a puzzle-based quest, and I never intentionally went out of my way to confound or fool anybody. I began it as a classic NES quest, then began adding new ZC items and enemies, then eventually my own as it progressed. Still, its layout and gameplay mostly follow classic NES style, so while there aren't blatant tricks to block progress or withhold items, it also plays like classic NES in that some of them do show up in rather obscure places, occasionally 2 or 3 secrets deep.

So, even though I don't think the quest should be too much of a brain-buster, that's only me speaking as the creator who knows every how, what, and why. For those that don't, feel free to ask here.

(And for what it's worth, I see other people starting topics for their own quests, so I hope it's not looked down on as self-promotion. I just wanted to share that I'm available in case anybody needs me :))

UPDATE - SEPTEMBER 08, 2019 - v1.2 RELEASED.

See project page for details.

UPDATE - APRIL 10, 2016 - v1.1 RELEASED.

See project page or this post for details.

Edited by Lüt, 14 September 2019 - 07:28 AM.


#2 renaultgamer0

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:32 PM

Playing this quest, I have a few questions about the locations of some items.  First where is the white and magical swords?  Second where is the red candle?  And third where is the Lens of Truth?  That would help me out so very much.  Slash would be nice as well, seeing that I am currently relying on the hammer for all of my offense.  I currently have the Wooden Sword, Blue Candle, Bow and Silver Arrows, Nayru's Love, Red Ring, L1 Hammer, Raft, Ladder, Power Glove, Mirror Shield, Whistle, Magical Boomerang, Bombs, Small Wallet, and Whisp Ring L1 alongside 8 magic containers and 17 Heart containers.  Completed 4 levels so far, having fun except for the missing items.



#3 CyberGamer1539

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:58 PM

Well I only know where the White Sword is.  You need a Super Bomb.  Blow up a big tree on the west side of the Green plains area using the Super Bomb, and the white sword will be given to you by an old man in the cave.  I hope I helped :)


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#4 Kivitoe

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 08:20 PM

If I recall right I remember being a beta tester, but I'm not in the credits.  :eyebrow:



#5 Monkey D. Ganon

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 05:16 PM

Hello! I am enjoying the quest but I am looking forward to finding the lens of thruth! I've met a man who told me it would be easier to find treasures with it.. So I suppose it must be somewhere around this guy? Please give me a clue :)



#6 Mani Kanina

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 07:22 PM

This quest has some issues that I feel need to be addressed for future versions: The eye burning palette of some areas. (Sand temple, primarily.) The fact that you're given the blue candle and are expected, in several locations, to burn every tree in a room until you find the one with the secret passage. Assuming there is one at all, plenty of rooms with trees that look the same don't. This would have been fine with a candle in which you don't have to leave a room to re-use, but as it stands it's tedious as hell. The spider dungeon is a mess, like, the whole thing, is a mess.

The first vault should require the whistle to enter, not the candle. There is otherwise a chance players will get stuck inside a room and be forced to die because they didn't have an item. Not to mention, you can't tackle most of the dungeon until after you have both level three items in the first place.

 

The maps are given at absurd locations in the dungeons, and well past the point of use. The fact that most players never find level 2 (and have to look it up.) because they missed the map and the bracelet in level 1 really highlights the issue. (But that's hardly the only dungeon with this issue.)

The lack of level numbers makes it confusing to know which order to do certain dungeons in. The sand dungeon and the spider dungeon can both be accessed after the raft, but it's not obvious which order they are in. (In regards to difficulty, etc.)



#7 Lüt

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 07:24 PM

Playing this quest, I have a few questions about the locations of some items.  First where is the white and magical swords?  Second where is the red candle?  And third where is the Lens of Truth?  That would help me out so very much.  Slash would be nice as well, seeing that I am currently relying on the hammer for all of my offense.  I currently have the Wooden Sword, Blue Candle, Bow and Silver Arrows, Nayru's Love, Red Ring, L1 Hammer, Raft, Ladder, Power Glove, Mirror Shield, Whistle, Magical Boomerang, Bombs, Small Wallet, and Whisp Ring L1 alongside 8 magic containers and 17 Heart containers.  Completed 4 levels so far, having fun except for the missing items.

Dang, you found your way to the hammer with only the wooden sword? :eek:

 

You're good!

 

So, you obviously found the second dungeon under that pushable stone. There's only one other screen in the green area with pushable stones like that (to the left of the first dungeon), and that has the "black market" guy selling the superbomb. In the screen directly below him, there's a giant spiked tree you can blow down by using that. The guy in the cave next to that screen, who says something like "big obstructions require big bombs," is hinting that you use the big bomb from the guy above to blow down the big tree below. There's your white sword.

 

Magical sword becomes available once you hookshot across to the fiery area. It's directly upward from that "entry" screen - the big floor-stone arrangement with the armos surrounding it should (hopefully) look mysterious. Without being too direct - winds don't only shift desert sands.

 

Red candle, and all the other fire items, are in the inferno dungeon, along with the slash, one tiger scroll, the second heart ring, and probably something else I'm forgetting.

 

Lens of Truth is at the end of that second Treasure Vault, that you have to hammer down the pegs to get in to.

Hello! I am enjoying the quest but I am looking forward to finding the lens of thruth! I've met a man who told me it would be easier to find treasures with it.. So I suppose it must be somewhere around this guy? Please give me a clue :)

Yeah, see, if the man had had the Lens of Truth, he wouldn't have ended up on the opposite side of the desert from where it really is :P

 

Anyway, what I just told renault above. Second Treasure Vault - north-west side of desert, walk up through the wall below, hammer down the pegs... and make sure you have the Whisp Ring from Ama's shop.

 

If I recall right I remember being a beta tester, but I'm not in the credits.   :eyebrow:

 

Well, not that this is really place, and yes I did get a quick post from you - but you really have to play through more than 2%-3% of a quest to get full beta credit.



#8 renaultgamer0

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 07:57 PM

Dang, you found your way to the hammer with only the wooden sword? :eek:

 

You're good!

 

So, you obviously found the second dungeon under that pushable stone. There's only one other screen in the green area with pushable stones like that (to the left of the first dungeon), and that has the "black market" guy selling the superbomb. In the screen directly below him, there's a giant spiked tree you can blow down by using that. The guy in the cave next to that screen, who says something like "big obstructions require big bombs," is hinting that you use the big bomb from the guy above to blow down the big tree below. There's your white sword.

 

Magical sword becomes available once you hookshot across to the fiery area. It's directly upward from that "entry" screen - the big floor-stone arrangement with the armos surrounding it should (hopefully) look mysterious. Without being too direct - winds don't only shift desert sands.

 

Red candle, and all the other fire items, are in the inferno dungeon, along with the slash, one tiger scroll, the second heart ring, and probably something else I'm forgetting.

 

Lens of Truth is at the end of that second Treasure Vault, that you have to hammer down the pegs to get in to.

Yeah, see, if the man had had the Lens of Truth, he wouldn't have ended up on the opposite side of the desert from where it really is :P

 

Anyway, what I just told renault above. Second Treasure Vault - north-west side of desert, walk up through the wall below, hammer down the pegs... and make sure you have the Whisp Ring from Ama's shop.

 

 

Well, not that this is really place, and yes I did get a quick post from you - but you really have to play through more than 2%-3% of a quest to get full beta credit.

Yeah I found the white and magical swords soon after.  I already completed most of the quest already with the Underworld dungeon left to complete.  I got everything already save for one triforce piece still left alongside whatever items are left in that dungeon.  Biggest issue I have with this quest is that spider dungeon that Lunaria mentioned with the pain of having to burn every tree in that area to find the ladder on that specific one tile.  I was stuck without being able to progress for a while because of that.  Maybe you should of made the red candle available for purchase after getting the blue one.



#9 ms_zelda_lady

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 09:24 PM

 I've finished the Desert, Spider Dungeon, Treasure Vault 1 and got the Magic Sword but I haven't found the Sand Dungeon. Should I have done the Sand Dungeon before the Desert Dungeon?  Having a blast Lut :love:


Edited by ms_zelda_lady, 08 October 2015 - 09:28 PM.


#10 Monkey D. Ganon

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 07:41 AM

Thanks for the clue, Lüt!

By going through the second treasure vault, I realized that I must have missed the Hookshot somewhere....:/

Could you tell me where I can get it ?



#11 CyberGamer1539

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 09:11 AM

 I've finished the Desert, Spider Dungeon, Treasure Vault 1 and got the Magic Sword but I haven't found the Sand Dungeon. Should I have done the Sand Dungeon before the Desert Dungeon?  Having a blast Lut :love:

I think that the Sand and Desert Dungeons are the same thing.  You can probably head onward to the Scorched and Frozen Dungeons.



#12 Gendof

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 12:35 PM

In Emerald Dungeon I can't seem to find the ladder or whatever it takes to access the first key.

Help, please.



#13 ms_zelda_lady

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 12:38 PM

Monkey D. Ganon the hookshot is in the Desert dungeon, not the Treasure Vault 2. Sorry Gendorf I don't remember how to get the bridge.



#14 Lüt

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 01:08 PM

 I've finished the Desert, Spider Dungeon, Treasure Vault 1 and got the Magic Sword but I haven't found the Sand Dungeon. Should I have done the Sand Dungeon before the Desert Dungeon?  Having a blast Lut :love:

Thanks :)

 

It's what CyberGamer said - there's no "Sand Dungeon," but the Desert Dungeon happens to be built from sand :P

 

Thanks for the clue, Lüt!

By going through the second treasure vault, I realized that I must have missed the Hookshot somewhere....:/

Could you tell me where I can get it ?

No problem.

 

Have you been in that Desert Dungeon? Because that also requires the hookshot to cross over to the boss room.

 

If you haven't, you may or may not have encountered that guy near the start who said something like "directly above the Desolate Dungeon lies the Desert Dungeon." If you can find that first entry screen on your overworld map (the spacebar map), it's the "dead end" at the lower-left side of the desert just above that screen. Make your way over there, and you'll see the unusually orderly rock formation. The guy at the entry of the desert, who said "winds can sometimes disrupt desert sands," was hinting that you might need to blow on something to get in.

 

Furthermore, once you know how to get in, you could perhaps be expected to use that same method at another similar "dead end" somewhere inside - in which, you'll find what you're looking for.

 

In Emerald Dungeon I can't seem to find the ladder or whatever it takes to access the first key.

Help, please.

Yeah, it's the ladder. If you go directly right from the entry, you should pick up the blue candle. Once you have that, go up and over to the grassy room with the Goriyas (2 rooms below the one with the compass that needs the ladder), and burn down the lower-right tree.

 

This quest has some issues that I feel need to be addressed for future versions: The eye burning palette of some areas. (Sand temple, primarily.) The fact that you're given the blue candle and are expected, in several locations, to burn every tree in a room until you find the one with the secret passage. Assuming there is one at all, plenty of rooms with trees that look the same don't. This would have been fine with a candle in which you don't have to leave a room to re-use, but as it stands it's tedious as hell. The spider dungeon is a mess, like, the whole thing, is a mess.

The first vault should require the whistle to enter, not the candle. There is otherwise a chance players will get stuck inside a room and be forced to die because they didn't have an item. Not to mention, you can't tackle most of the dungeon until after you have both level three items in the first place.

 

The maps are given at absurd locations in the dungeons, and well past the point of use. The fact that most players never find level 2 (and have to look it up.) because they missed the map and the bracelet in level 1 really highlights the issue. (But that's hardly the only dungeon with this issue.)

The lack of level numbers makes it confusing to know which order to do certain dungeons in. The sand dungeon and the spider dungeon can both be accessed after the raft, but it's not obvious which order they are in. (In regards to difficulty, etc.)

You bring up a lot of good points worth discussing.

 

Without trying to sound too defensive, I did have specific reasons for doing things the way I did, of which I'll share a few. You might agree with some of them, or hate all of them. Probably the latter, but, worth talking about anyway :P

 

Palettes I replied to in your comment on the quest page. It grew longer than I expected, so I won't rehash it all here, but I did explain my process, and why it's incredibly difficult to discuss color without establishing precise consistency between our viewing conditions, as well as building those conditions on known color management standards.

 

I'll give you the candle thing. Most of my decisions like those were made with the original quests in mind, rather than any custom quests or community preferences. I guess I'm one of the few people who actually liked the obscurity factor of the original game. Well, most of the time.

 

"There are secrets where fairies don't live," and you only get 2 fairy pond references to figure out the third is the secret, as well as that you have to blow the whistle to drain the pond? Worked for me! I know they're established standards now, but back then, with no internet, some friends down the street and a few gaming magazines? I found solving things like that a rewarding adventure.

 

On the other hand, I hated a few. The second quest: burning nearly every tree in the entire overworld with the blue candle, trying to find the 7th dungeon, located under a tree you can only burn from the other side of the screen? Hell no. My ladder tree might have been obscure, but I think it was certainly a step down from that week-wasting nightmare. I figured the candle near the start implied you had to burn something later, and the lack of the ladder made clear it would be an area between the candle and the room in which you need the ladder. But I guess people like to move quicker than that. Duly noted.

 

Similarly, I didn't predict people would try burning every single tree in Seaside. The tree variety is just a little "gardening" technique I came up with and carried throughout the quest. I thought that the grassy room off to the left side, which had a variety of tough enemies to defeat without any reward being revealed, would indicate that the room had more to it than any of the others, which you simply pass through on your way to the next room. Every other "dead end" room had an item or passage in it, except for that one, in which, you just burn the first tree in front of the door. But again, different standards of "obvious." Duly noted.

 

Spider Dungeon - I don't know. All I can say, is I built things that I liked, and that appealed to me. After finishing the whole quest, I still think that one might be my personal favorite dungeon of all of them. If you have more specifics you didn't like, beyond "the whole thing," like block arrangement, enemy placement, item availability/requirements, door or stair locations, I'd be interested to hear your preferences - or at least, how you'd do it differently. If it happens to do with the multi-entrances, I did make the dungeon and overworld screen ratios the same. In other words, moving up 2 screens in the dungeon moves you up 2 screens in the overworld, or moving right 1 screen and up 1 screen moves you the same distance in either map. Although, I guess that hardly covers "the whole thing." :P Apart from that, all I can do is chalk it up to differences in design preferences, and agree to disagree that it's fun or it's trash.

 

First vault - it presents a series of item checks; candle at the entry, magic shield for not getting wasted in the shooting-statue room, (bonus: walk-through-wall technique to get to the main part), ladder to cross the river, bow and arrow to defeat Gohma... and whistle to break down Digdogger. I see where you're coming from - use the highest-level item to gain access in the first place. However, 1) that would have made the Digdoggers irrelevant as the whistle-check, and 2) the forest area surrounding the entrance makes it the most reasonable place to put burnable trees (especially after the second-dungeon ladder-tree confusion).

 

Also, it's not that I expect anybody to read the text file for necessary info before playing, but one of my design guidelines I followed was this:

 

"No shutter traps. You'll always have the option to retreat if you come across a room that looks too hard. However, in rare instances, the way out may be a door or floor other than the one you entered from." You're able to retreat from every room in that vault, or any other dungeon or cave, if you're not ready for it. I did make note, however, that I may make exceptions in side-dungeons since they exist outside the standard difficulty progression - specifically, that refers to the third and final vault, which is a series of lock-ins. The first series only requires sword and bombs, so it shouldn't be some horrendously unbeatable traps (though the rooms are incredibly hard, and you need some bombs for the Dodongos). The second series does require wand magic, so I put a wand-check room before anybody can access that series so that nobody gets unfairly trapped.

 

Lack of level numbers - that's non-linearity for you. You can take multiple paths in some dungeons, and you can take multiple paths in the overworld as well. Take any one you want. They're meant to be equally accessible.

 

Maps - I do use these a little differently than usual. Again, I don't depend on people reading the text, but I made this note:

 

"Dungeon Maps always reveal every room. As a result, they often appear near the end of the dungeon, or are either hidden or well-guarded." In other words, earlier ones tend to provide a secret-check near the conclusion of the level, more than provide a guide through the level. Most of my dungeons don't have an incredible amount of bombable or walk-through walls, so manually mapping them is relatively straight-forward, and the few that do exist, are instantly revealed either a little before you leave, or just before you come up on them. Maps for later dungeons are provided earlier though, due to the size of the dungeons, so they do somewhat transition to a guide eventually.

 

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback. It seems clear we look for moderately, if not significantly, different things in quests, so I'm not sure how much of your preferred gameplay or layout styles would make it into the things I do. Still, I like hearing things like this, because it helps me understand what other people besides me like in a quest. If I ever do another one, I can at least design it with preferences like this mind :)

 

Yeah I found the white and magical swords soon after.  I already completed most of the quest already with the Underworld dungeon left to complete.  I got everything already save for one triforce piece still left alongside whatever items are left in that dungeon.  Biggest issue I have with this quest is that spider dungeon that Lunaria mentioned with the pain of having to burn every tree in that area to find the ladder on that specific one tile.  I was stuck without being able to progress for a while because of that.  Maybe you should of made the red candle available for purchase after getting the blue one.

I mostly addressed this above, but regarding the candle, it's a possibility. I had considered just giving the red candle first and skipping the blue entirely. But, I didn't feel there were that many burn secrets that would warrant it. I suppose I could have made the blue candle multi-burn, and the red one simply provide an increase in flame damage (which it currently does). I don't think I'll make a Ver 1.1 of the quest just for that, but now that you mention it, I kind of wish I had thought of a thing like that :|



#15 Mani Kanina

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 02:35 PM

I always like it when quests have a bit of humour in them: https://dl.dropboxus...Legacy Worm.mp4




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